[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Why go so low? Because they had no real sponsors, we’re under pressure from board level to find some, didn’t have the contacts to work out what others had quoted and were naive.

But 80% lower? Couldn’t they have secured it at the same of the lowest because you get a better team, or 10% lower, or 50% lower?

How confident is your 80% lower?

[chillibowl]

But isnt this the nature of b2b deals?

BB or any other technical partner pays less in actual money and effectively pays the for the rest with products or services. Barter on a grander scale.

I suppose the products/services being offered could then be used throughout all Merc divisions so an even larger benefit then the lost revenue from the lowered advertising rate?

[Adam43]

Ah, not actually cheaper, just payment isn’t always directly for the sponsorship.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

But isnt this the nature of b2b deals?

BB or any other technical partner pays less in actual money and effectively pays the for the rest with products or services. Barter on a grander scale.

I suppose the products/services being offered could then be used throughout all Merc divisions so an even larger benefit then the lost revenue from the lowered advertising rate?

Reading this article about the Blackberry/Merc deal, it would seem it just pertains to the F1 team. However, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been implemented across all Merc divisions.

https://www.mobileworldlive.com/blog...it-blackberry/

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Adam43

But 80% lower? Couldn’t they have secured it at the same of the lowest because you get a better team, or 10% lower, or 50% lower?

How confident is your 80% lower?

It’s some time ago and hadn’t thought about it in years. Like I said the poaching was seen as a sad fact of life, the concern was the devaluing of sponsorship as somebody desperate gave it away to look good to the board.

[Moneyseeker]

The new livery, sadly lacking in sponsors to the point that Williams have their own logos on the cars. Unfortunately reminds me of the look of cars from teams that we shortly to disappear from the grid, hope the same doesn't happen to Williams.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/willi...r-2020-season/

[morninggents]

I note from the press release that Williams claim to have terminated the Rokit agreement.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The new livery, sadly lacking in sponsors to the point that Williams have their own logos on the cars. Unfortunately reminds me of the look of cars from teams that we shortly to disappear from the grid, hope the same doesn't happen to Williams.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/willi...r-2020-season/

Reminiscent of what happened to Tyrrell.

I have been saying for a while that Williams are the “new Tyrrelll”.
Sadly.
I loved the Tyrrell team.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The new livery, sadly lacking in sponsors to the point that Williams have their own logos on the cars. Unfortunately reminds me of the look of cars from teams that we shortly to disappear from the grid, hope the same doesn't happen to Williams.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/willi...r-2020-season/

Oh well, at least it didn't have "YOUR NAME HERE PLEASE CONTACT US" plastered on the side!

[S griffin]

On second look the livery doesn't look too bad from an aesthetic point of view, but yeah, it's a sad indication of the team's state that there are hardly any sponsors left. Their only hope is the car is as good as it has been in testing

[Moneyseeker]

One thing that comes to my mind. The budget cap is going to be $135m - excluding marketing/hospitality and drivers wages. Williams is never going to get near $135m is sponsorship income - Rockit paid $20m for title I believe - so they will still be dependent on finishing position in the WCC for most of their income.

I know that Claire sees the budget cap as the answer to Williams woes, but is it?

Won't the big teams just find ways to 'optimise' their own operation so they can do more for less money, so the budget cap goes further with them pro-rata.

Where will the investors (when they get them) find their return? I can only see a low profit at best, but still cash hungry operation regardless, surely?

[peebee2]

I think the new livery looks fine. Albeit in a Latifi F2 type of way.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The car looks much better. Cleaner lines without that massive, garish, ROKiT logo.

[Adam43]

Merc used Blackberry across a lot of it's NSOs and HQ. And back in the day of when they owned McLaren they used SAP too, as another example.

I think it is probably reasonable to assume that any perceived massive discount is offset by other benefits elsewhere.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Merc used Blackberry across a lot of it's NSOs and HQ. And back in the day of when they owned McLaren they used SAP too, as another example.

I think it is probably reasonable to assume that any perceived massive discount is offset by other benefits elsewhere.

Nissan in their BTCC days had Vodafone who I believe were Nissans mobile comms provider across Europe. Most, but not all, manufacturer sponsorships have some sort of business relationship behind them.

Ferrari F1 have UPS on the car, who also ship Ferrari and FCA parts worldwide. Petronas is first pour lubricant supplier to Mercedes for OEM and service - think how many cars Mercedes make in a day and service in a day across their network.

[S griffin]

And Ferrari and Shell go back a long way, although there was time their fuel supplier was Agip

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by andy97

Reminiscent of what happened to Tyrrell.

I have been saying for a while that Williams are the “new Tyrrelll”.
Sadly.
I loved the Tyrrell team.

Tyrell did become Mercedes in the end

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Tyrell did become Mercedes in the end

There's hope for them yet then.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And Ferrari and Shell go back a long way, although there was time their fuel supplier was Agip

Sponsorship clearly works as I love filling up with Agip when in that part of the world.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Tyrell did become Mercedes in the end

Indeed, via BAT, Honda and Brawn. I wonder if there are any employees there with continuous service through all of that? Doubt there is any Tyrrell DNA there really.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Sponsorship clearly works as I love filling up with Agip when in that part of the world.

Last time I went to Italy, there was nothing but Agip stations.

[Roninho]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

One thing that comes to my mind. The budget cap is going to be $135m - excluding marketing/hospitality and drivers wages. Williams is never going to get near $135m is sponsorship income - Rockit paid $20m for title I believe - so they will still be dependent on finishing position in the WCC for most of their income.

I know that Claire sees the budget cap as the answer to Williams woes, but is it?

Won't the big teams just find ways to 'optimise' their own operation so they can do more for less money, so the budget cap goes further with them

You certainly have a point. Imo the thinking is more like we have a better chance to be cpmpetitive with $ 60 budget vs all the others on $135 mio, vs being on 60 mio vs teams on 500 mio.
They wont be consistently in the top, but with a budget cap they should be capable of getting rid of being last all the time, which is a huge upgrade

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The new livery, sadly lacking in sponsors to the point that Williams have their own logos on the cars. Unfortunately reminds me of the look of cars from teams that we shortly to disappear from the grid, hope the same doesn't happen to Williams.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/willi...r-2020-season/

Hmm. :/

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Hmm. :/

Quite, well found and yes sadly there are several precedents!

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by andy97

Indeed, via BAT, Honda and Brawn. I wonder if there are any employees there with continuous service through all of that? Doubt there is any Tyrrell DNA there really.

The company number 00787446 is still the same.