GT3 Manufacturers...

[broadrun96]

I think those who aren't willing to build and support a car are out. Would not at all be surprised to see that 5 year comment from Aston. But given we have 2 new cars now with wait lists, 2 cars coming next year with wait lists and a to be released Lexus/Toyota and Lamborghini I doubt 5 years is reasonable. But we've seen that multiple times now and racing is cyclic as cars get faster and more expensive a new class slots in the cost gap. And no, GT2 ain't that car yet with few of them on track and more in private collections

[GT3_Fan]

I think GT3 formula will do just fine for rest of decade. The peak might be now and next year.

Isn't Audi getting out soon? That might start the slow decline and it will be slow. For sure slower than GTE's demise which you can trace back to Ford ending their run at the end of 2019 and only now in 2023 is the class going bye bye fully.

[PhilipR]

https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...exit/10496865/

Strong words from customers about Audi sport customer shutting down and a bit about the decisions being made and reasons behind it

Also interesting head of the F1 project whilst under Audi Sport reports directly to the CEO of Audi and not to head of Audi Sport

[FIRE]

IMO it's a mistake to shutdown the customer motorsport department. It can exist alongside F1.

[PhilipR]

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...24-part-1.html Interesting insight into the GT3 environment and quite ironic that it is coming from Audi Sport

To quote one part from this brilliant article

Audi’s customer sport structure, which is centred around selling as many cars as possible and supporting a large number of teams, compatible with the current GT3 landscape where the newest cars are being priced at the €700,000 plus mark?

“Now OEMs who have no interest in a business-case-driven volume market, to develop the platform further, are coming in with high-priced, low-volume cars that are hard to beat with regular customer racing products,” he replies.

“I feel that this is a bit of poison at the moment. If we can stabilise GT3 and we all have customer-orientated attitudes it will keep on scaling up. But if we continue to all go for the cherry and not the cake, the whole thing will collapse.”

Seems that more manufacturers are joining but with lower car count , not necessarily interested into a large customer base which is driving the costs up

I think this might be the reason Audi, BMW, Merc, Lambo, Fer and Porsche have been so successful is because they have created the large customer base which in turn is keeping prices relatively low on their cars

[broadrun96]

But everyone you listed there is the majority of the field and winners. not many other cars out there on the market left are there?

Mustang and Vette haven't released their product yet, NSX is a low take item and not exactly tearing up the field, Lexus has a few but not exactly full factory paid efforts there, McLaren is around but again not dominating so who is driving the price up for everyone? Yes, a Vette will be expensive but they aren't building a ton of them and BoP will keep them in line.

But I also do agree that having Pro factory run GT3 teams will GT1/GTS/GTE up the works and in 5 years we'll be here bemoaning their loss and wondering about GT4.

[flatlandsman]

It is sad that a company that has for so long been a huge part of endurance racing is basically shutting down shop in favour of F1.

But the sport moves on, there were not here in the glory days really, and will be missed, but you move on.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Yes, a Vette will be expensive but they aren't building a ton of them and BoP will keep them in line.

Potential customer: Why buy a ultra expensive car over a cheaper one if the class has BoP?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Potential customer: Why buy a ultra expensive car over a cheaper one if the class has BoP?

I reckon it has a lot to do with personal preference, and wanting to stand out. And I would love to be in a position to make a similar decision!

[broadrun96]

Exactly, only Vette fans who REALLY want the car would buy one. And it helps PM keep the numbers to build down since they aren't the line that Porsche is.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Exactly, only Vette fans who REALLY want the car would buy one. And it helps PM keep the numbers to build down since they aren't the line that Porsche is.

In that case I prefer the customer motorsport philosophy of Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche. It's also a better one if you like healthy GT racing.

[broadrun96]

As long as only 1 or 2 teams are offering that the series is probably ok, it's when everyone becomes a single team car and expensive. BoP helps as well cause unless you're a fan boy why buy the 2x cost car when the cheaper option works.

But yes, costs need to be part of the homologation process and something worked out for a max. Not sure how that would work though

[flatlandsman]

There is an issue when cars are now approaching 600k plus all the help you need after that.

I was staggered at the trucks etc at Silverstone for Brit GT, it was basically a works AMG setup for some of the teams, that must be costing a fortune, and being brutally honest is not reflected in the driving quality of some of the drivers, the crowds or some other aspects, but these are often rich men with the welath to afford this. Fair play to Mercedes for going full send though!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

There is an issue when cars are now approaching 600k plus all the help you need after that.

I was staggered at the trucks etc at Silverstone for Brit GT, it was basically a works AMG setup for some of the teams, that must be costing a fortune, and being brutally honest is not reflected in the driving quality of some of the drivers, the crowds or some other aspects, but these are often rich men with the welath to afford this. Fair play to Mercedes for going full send though!

Is the truck/transporter setup indicative of how complex it is to run these cars? Or could someone actually fit all the kit in a simpler trailer?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by joeb

Is the truck/transporter setup indicative of how complex it is to run these cars? Or could someone actually fit all the kit in a simpler trailer?

There's a guy who runs a firs gen Super Trofeo in HSR out of a trailer from Northern Tool. He did wreck it last year and didn't see him this spring but always fun to see than car roll out of a trailer JUST bigger than it. Picture him storing it in his garage at home

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

There's a guy who runs a firs gen Super Trofeo in HSR out of a trailer from Northern Tool. He did wreck it last year and didn't see him this spring but always fun to see than car roll out of a trailer JUST bigger than it. Picture him storing it in his garage at home

Yes, like when Van der Steur used to run the radical LMP2 and had a tiny trailer to pack it all in.

[broadrun96]

Yeah but those guys got Road Atlanta angry at campers passing a few passes through the fence multiple times and camping in the infield. Or so it has been rumored

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by joeb

Is the truck/transporter setup indicative of how complex it is to run these cars? Or could someone actually fit all the kit in a simpler trailer?

Here is a quick tour of the Optimum Motorsports pit area at the SPA 24 hours. Seriously impressive. https://twitter.com/OptimumMSport/st...306645505?s=20

[joeb]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Here is a quick tour of the Optimum Motorsports pit area at the SPA 24 hours. Seriously impressive. https://twitter.com/OptimumMSport/st...306645505?s=20

That is impressive!

[v8supes]

Just watching some FIA GT3 highlights from 2009 this afternoon, as you do and i just realised that Haase and Mies will have driven the Audi at its first GT3 race at Silverstone in 2009 and the last officially "supported" race towards the end of this year. Thats kinda remarkable.

[joeb]

New Toyota spied testing. It looks great!

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ting-in-japan/

[broadrun96]

So Toyota and MB are better at making a Corvette than Corvette is now it seems

[v8supes]

Looks like a cross between the original Mercedes SLS GT3 and the current Vantage GT3. Looks LONG

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

So Toyota and MB are better at making a Corvette than Corvette is now it seems

Originally Posted by v8supes

Looks like a cross between the original Mercedes SLS GT3 and the current Vantage GT3. Looks LONG

I thought it had a little Viper in it too!

Hood is super long, but it might work proportionally.

In the DSC article about this testing they mentioned a 2026 debut. That is a long time from now, no clue why they couldn't get it ready for 2025 if they have been testing for 5 months already. Some of the GTP cars debuted with less testing than that.

[TF110]

I think they're (having to) wait(ing) on the production car to make it's appearance. I'm guessing that it'll be next year around this time that it's shown off for 2025 model year. And hopefully there's a couple of the gt3's racing before customers snatch one or a few. My thoughts are obviously IMSA with Vasser. Super GT GT300 Class teams. And probably a pair in WEC. Who gets to try it first? Maybe it'll run at the N24 or 'Ring races in SPX before it's actually ready.