History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Steve W. , I wasn't casting nasturtions ; the "allegedly" refers to the second car thing , because I'm getting very confused about Tony Dickinson's Skodas , how many there were of them , when they ran , what powered them , and just what chassis they were based on ! Other than that , the whole thing is crystal clear to me !

Thanks for clearing that up! I have to agree with your further hypothesis; it is possible that the ONE Dickinson car had two chassis in effect. This is common practice in hillclimbing especially where bits are interchangeable.

[Clive Brown]

Bingo! Go back to the Czech site http://www.foltyn.cz/car/skoda/skodasaloon5v.jpg , and compare it to Steve W.'s Oulton Park picture . Look at the front radiator apertures , the rear wheel arches , the rear wheels , and in particular , the moulded vents in the rear bodywork above the waistline and behind the rear side windows . If that is the same car , it's had a major reworking . The first iteration ( Steve W's picture ) has what I would call shoulder apertures on the leading edge of the rear wheel arch extensions , a bit like a Chaparral 2F . In the Czecho picture , the rear arches are flared out from the 'B' post to meet the full width of the car over the rear wheels ; exactly , in fact , as per the two pictures of the Pink Pig at Lydden !

Nor is the Czecho picture the final version of the car as run by TD . The Special Saloon regulations were changed , so that classes A and B could use proper rear wings , rather than the previous bootlid spoiler , which had to be contained " within the vertically periphery of the original bootlid , with no forward facing gaps or apertures , and no higher than the halfway up the vertical height of the rear window " . I should know ; I drafted the amendment to the regulations for submision to Their Lordships in Belgrave Square !

Now , the reason Graham's chassis has extended sidepods becomes obvious to me ; whereas Tony Dickinson's Skoda had removable front and rear body sections with extended arches which bridged the gap between the outside edges of the original tub and the outside edges of the tyres ( most two litre Special Saloons ran F2 rubber on 10" front wheels and 13" rear wheels , whereas Sports 2000s ran what , 6" and 8" rims ? ) , when I designed the bodywork for David Enderby's Karmann Ghia , which in its first iteration as a 1 litre Special Saloon ran F3 rubber on 8" and 10" rims , I drew it up with slab sides , pretty much like a contemporary March Group C car .

Remember that ( assuming the original suspension geometry of the base car is correct ! ) if you fit wheel rims 2" wider , the additional width should be added 1" to either side of the mounting face of the wheels ; therefore , the overall width of the car , measured across the outer face of the rims , will have been increased by 2" The doors of David's car were full-depth , and fitted over the side sponsons of the tub , but were barely 1" deep over their lower parts .

The body of the Humberstone Karmann Ghia was taken from the Demon Doctor's moulds ; therefore , it would have been much wider across its mid-section than the body the Dickinson Skoda . Accordingly , it would have been necessary to extend the side pods of the original Lola chassis outwards to meet the bodywork ! This explains just why Messrs. Harman and Schneider had to fabricate and fix additional structures to the original sidepods of the Lola chassis .

[911thillclimber]

Great detective work Gentlemen, and thanks for the mail.

The small duct in my passenger side pod would line-up with the CZ picture in the leading face of the rear wing.
The side pods I have are about 2 inches each side wider than the T492 pods because i have to remove them and re-form or replace them over Xmas to suit the Lola body I have which is brand new.

Time for me to take it all a touch further.

Graham.

[Clive Brown]

Look at the picture of the Humberstone ' Pink Pig ' Skoda ( note the aperture in the bodywork covering the lower right rear sponson , behind the driver's door ) ,and compare it with the picture of the unclothed Dickinson Skoda in posting #140 , immediately above ! That's the engine oil cooler mounted just to the rear of the dry sump tank , which has been installed behind the driver's side 'B' post .

I can also shed some light upon the driver's seat ; whilst Tony Dickinson was no midget ( maybe about 5' 11" ) , Alan Humberstone was a big lad , probably 6' 2" and going a good 16 stone plus . Hence the skinny driver's seat !

[911thillclimber]

The seat is a very tight fit and catches the gear shift rod and is generally a fibre glass back panel moulded over a pice of alloy as a 'mould' There is then a smidgin of self moulding foam and then glass on top.
It is far to wide for me @ 5-10 and 12 stone.

New Lola seat needed.

[Clive Brown]

By skinny , I meant that the driver's seat itself was ' skinny ' , having virtually no padding whatsoever ! Alan was certainly not a skinny driver ; he came with his own padding . No snakehips , he !

[911thillclimber]

While I'm waiting for an email from Tony D, a summary overview:

If TD had 3 Skodas using 2 Lolas and (maybe) this Lola of mine is the third and last one, that would mean mine got converted in 79?

Thus if it was a T 490 (built in 1977) then the car would have been just 2 years old! (is that probable?)

So:

Mr. X bought a T 490 from Lola Chassis # x in 1977.
Mr. X raced it for 2 years and sold it to TonyD for conversion to a 3rd Skoda Special.
Mr TD raced that special for ? years, and Harry Humberstone (might have) bought it from TD. Fibresport made a replica of Dr. Enderby's Ghia and John Scheneider/Tony Harman did some/all the work with the pink/black stripe/spoiler Ghia shell and the Lola with an 1800cc / big bhp cossie.

The car did not race (or maybe raced once) in this form. Tony H told me it did not race but got stored in a Barn attic.(he thinks 'down south')

This is 1985/6/7

Then...16 years later, I think:

The Lola/Ghia was bought by racer Mike in 2002 with a mess of a pink Ghia shell and as a roller.
Mike added a modern Cossie Sierra engine and FT 200, new T 492 shell/ rollcage and sold it to me in 2008 as a roller.

Graham.

[driftwood]

i cannot se the car being built in 79 as a 2 yr old race car
Tony D did not buy the t290 car and parts until leman24 hr race was finsihed in 1978 theT290 skoda would have ran in 79 80 seasons

Mike told me your car came out from maidstone area which makes sense considering the last owner

[911thillclimber]

Yes, building the Skoda on a 2 year old race car seemed extravegant.

So that would close the history gap a few years, Skoda racing in 80/81, Humberstone conversion 85 ish

Mike told me very very little about the car except for the body bit.
Anything else you might know?

[big andy]

im ringing tony sugden in tonight hes good friends with dicky he might no something

[Clive Brown]

There's suspecting , knowing , and proving ! I strongly suspect that TD bought a T490 or T492 . He might have bought it direct from the original purchaser , or it might have passed through other hands . Now , TD does have a previous history of buying pieces of kit rather newer than was customary in Special Saloons ; the Hart 420R didn't make its debut until part-way through the 1976 season , but Steve W's picture has him racing a Skoda with just such a motor at Oulton Park in 1978 .

I think that Harry Humberstone acquired the car in the mid-eighties , again either directly from TD , or via one or more third parties . Certainly , TD raced his final iteration of a Skoda 130R ( I think that's its correct designation ) up until the last knockings of the Wendy Wools Special Saloon Car Championship , of which he was a multiple class and outright champion .

Harry lived just outside Canterbury , but his original business was registered in Maidstone . Alan ( his eldest son ) raced a pink Skoda , which I believe was the ex-TD car , certainly at Lydden ; we've all seen the pictures , and I was there ! It might have used Tony Dickinson's Hart and FT200 set-up , or could alternatively have employed the 420R and FG400 which Harry would have had left over from Rob Mason's 1979 Sunbeam Stiletto Special Saloon / GT . That , by the way , was a fresh car , and not the George Bevan car from 1977 ; what happened to it subsequently is another story !

I know that the pink Skoda was rebodied as a Karmann Ghia . I well remember David Enderby discussing with me whether or not it was a terribly good idea to lend Harry the moulds ( the Humberstones pere et fils were , shall we say , not the most naturally-gifted engineers ever to have trodden God's earth ) ; we eventually agreed that they could use the moulds , on condition that their panels were made , as David's original panels were , by Fibresports at Basildon . Frankly , we had envisaged Harry trying to make the panels himself , and glueing them inextricably to the moulds !

The turbo Ford for the KG was just another of Harry's flights of engineering fancy , along with his ' improvements ' to brand new Cosworth BDHs , the bike-engined Suzuki SC100 , and various other projects .

Harry really deserves a separate thread all to himself ; a lovely man , and a true original , who I remember still with great affection

[911thillclimber]

I have contacted Fibre sports some months ago and they said they made the pink body and I think they still have the moulds!

Any contact with TD will be most valuable.

I have just 2 goals here,
Find the original Chassis number and is the Lola I have a 490 or 492
To know the full history of the car's life. I love the hot-rod bit in all this, originality is all very well, but bespoke engineering is in my car background, and everything gets modified ...Hence the 911 in the Lola instead of an iron Pinto engine.

Is Harry still with us?

My garage scene tonight:
I have about 25 rivits to replace which have been worn off the belly of the floor by trailers, scraping across floors and the odd 'off' somewhere i think.

[911thillclimber]

Big andy: did you manage to talk about TD at all? TD has not returned my email so i don't want to invade his privacy.

I've been working on the floor of the tub over the last few evenings, replacing the 'stressed' rivets with Monel replacements (so much tougher than aluminium, but 30p each!)
I've repaired a tear in the floor and have discovered that the pod bulkhead (by the 2 drills in the pic above) has been replaced neatly. This is a steel panel. I've replaced the pops with solid rivits to restore things a bit, but I hope this snippet of info might jolt a few memories!

Both pods are now off and i think this tub has had 3 sets of pods on since new (maybe 4...)

Graham.

[big andy]

911

yes give me a ring (07985714969) and ill tell you what i know

[driftwood]

aw secret squirrel club now!

[Clive Brown]

If you've been trying to put in Monel pop rivets using the sort of hand tools commonly available , I'm sure you now understand my comment about them being " harder than your Mother-in-Law " !

I once used 3/16" Monel pops to fix a roll cage to a monocoque ; having found tools that didn't snap before the rivets did , I developed forearms like Popeye .

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

aw secret squirrel club now!

I thought that as well! Maybe Graham will post a resume of the resultant conversation?

[911thillclimber]

I'll call you tomorrow Andy, just opened the PC up for the day.

The floor is now all done. I was going to paint it, but will leave well alone.
Side pods next. I'm modifying the current ones to keep as much of the old car as possible.

Almost ready to actually starting to re-build this car now at long last.

I'm known as having a handshake like the grip of Molegrips. Popping those monel rivits was a good work-out!
After one certain tough cookie by thumb went knumb for a few minutes after.
I've now ordered the heavy duty pop rivet gun off ebay. That will get the pecs in shape!!

[911thillclimber]

Just been told by the guy who I bought the Lola off this year that the Karmann Ghia body was White when he got the car. It was never pink!

Not sure that changes anything, but best be accurate!

[Clive Brown]

Paint may simply have faded with the passage of time ; not uncommon with red shades !

[911thillclimber]

(that's what I thought)
If 17 years had passed pink could easily be white after UV had taken it's toll.
hope what Andy has to say is 'ok'!

[oneofapair]

Have an idea that Brian Davis of Autoquip in Ashford Kent took the Karmann Ghia in from the Humberstones as well as Suzuki sc100 mentioned in other silhouette threads. he might know a little info!

[911thillclimber]

Ahh! another lead!
Thanks for the info.

I recon we could make a great Board Game from this lot!

[911thillclimber]

Had an interesting chat with Brian Davis today.

He bought the car off Harry Humberstone (who died years ago, and Alan and his mother are now in Spain) with a white Karmann Ghia body. It was painted white, originally pink with a black stripe/huge spoiler.

It prob had an RS 200 turbo engine fitted by Harry, but was bought by Brian as a bodied roller. Brian added a Cossie Sierra turbo engine and FT 200, but lost heart and sold it. (maybe to Mike who I bought it off).

At least that sorts the pink/white issue!

Tony Dickinson could well hold the major clues to the car now.

[driftwood]

i will say Mike took the car from Brian all same area in kent