[BTCC] BTCC Brands Hatch indy rounds 1,2 & 3 2012

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by pauln

A quick check this morning shows that 5 second penalties were being given out in all other races bar one, with none in any of the BTCC races.

There were plenty of driving standards flags shown during the BTCC races. Where a penalty was given it took the form of a drive-through rather than a 5 second time penalty so that won't show separately in the final results.

[gregc]

Originally Posted by redshoes

There were plenty of driving standards flags shown during the BTCC races. Where a penalty was given it took the form of a drive-through rather than a 5 second time penalty so that won't show separately in the final results.

Indeed - there were drive through penalties in each race. Liam Griffin and Dan Welch in race 1, TOC, Jeff Smith and Lea Wood in race 2, Andy Neate and Frank Wrathall in race 3. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess these were for exceeding the track limits.

[Sodemo]

Maybe if they put gravel there instead of run off then the drivers wouldn't be exceeding the track limits and gaining an advantage, ever...? Or put a wall there. With spikes on it.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Maybe if they put gravel there instead of run off then the drivers wouldn't be exceeding the track limits and gaining an advantage, ever...? Or put a wall there. With spikes on it.

I'm sure the bikers who race there who have something to say about that

[cerdic]

Ouch?

[pauln]

Originally Posted by gregc

Indeed - there were drive through penalties in each race. Liam Griffin and Dan Welch in race 1, TOC, Jeff Smith and Lea Wood in race 2, Andy Neate and Frank Wrathall in race 3. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess these were for exceeding the track limits.

Thanks for that, chaps. As ever though, it would appear the penalties are given to the backmarkers not the front-running "characters".

[dyewat808]

Just got to this thread (a bit late)

Thoughts: loved Toby as the new commentator, think he'll really settle into the role. Solid replacement.

Zipping quickly through the thread a bit earlier I noticed someone said they thought the MG looked a little stock-car like, my exact thoughts too, especially when looking back at it from a leading car.

Certainly some things to be said about various careless moments, regarding the marshall's treatment of cars, and the usual sub-par standards of driving, but I kind of expect it now (driving standards that is). Hopefully things will be cleaned up a little. But overall, I enjoyed it, I think it could turn out to be a cracking season - looking forward to Donny.

[Stephen Green]

I think I explained whet you term 'careless treatment of cars' in an earlier post.

[dyewat808]

Apologies if I have missed something, still skipping through the thread

[Stephen Green]

No problem...

[dyewat808]

Think I just found the post. Just to clear up, I think the marshalls did (and continue to do) a fantastic job. To be fair I didn't think we'd see a finish to that race, which just goes to sure how quickly the problem was solved.

One thing I still don't understand (I'm going to reveal my general ignorance here again, it might be a stupid question and maybe I've missed it reading through the thread), but how come the tow rope wasn't just directly attached to the main car-frame? Is this physically difficult or should the front frame have been strong enough to have held the rope?

Anyway, cheers for explaining what was going on!

Also I agree with the comment about the small extension of tarmac run-off into the gravel trap - that would have made it easier to rescue Jackson's car as that ended up using that bit and not getting stuck in the gravel as a result.

However the effectiveness of gravel does make me wonder once more why they continue to use tarmac run-off in new tracks. For F1 perhaps it works, but for the boxes that are touring cars, surely gravel works just as well?

[Stephen Green]

To answer your questions:

1. The tow rope was connected to the front valance and not the main sub frame, hence the reason it came away so easily.

2. The extension of the tarmac run off area certainly helped avoid several red flags on Saturday and safety cars on Sunday as there was the room for the drivers to spin and then get going again rather than find themselves beached in a gravel trap.

[Bramzel]

I'm a bit baffled by the general attitude against anybody daring to critisize the marshalls. If you're doing a job in public you will get reactions on it, whether you're doing it voluntarily or not. Sometimes these critics are right, sometimes they're not. But the reactions here are seriously over-sensitive.

Everybody with an interest in racing knows what marshalls do, and everybody appreciates and respects that. But they're only humans too, so they'll make mistakes.

[Stephen Green]

I don't think any of us mind constructive criticism as we welcome in all walks of life, what I have done here is try to explain how certain things happened and what was the resulting action.

You are right though to say we do make mistakes, we are only human, but we must ensure that we learn from those mistakes and become even more efficient in what we do.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

1. The tow rope was connected to the front valance and not the main sub frame, hence the reason it came away so easily.

Should that not have been picked up in scrutineering? I'm not clued up on what actually goes on in that process.

[Stephen Green]

No idea as I am not a scrutineer

[Bramzel]

But you can't blame it solely on the front valance. Its a combination of 2 things, the not to sturdy connection of the towhook and the fact that the marshalls kept pulling it even though it was obviously digging in. I understand they're under time-pressure, but in this case it took even longer. If they had aborted the operation when the front was digging in to pull it backwards it would have been avoided wouldn't it? And aren't the marshalls completely in their right when they tell race control politely to sod off as they can only do their best?

[Tom Bee]

The car should of been pulled backwards first then moved to a place of safety, however its always easier to criticize when not involved. It would of prevented the car from getting damaged and the incident would of been dealt with much quicker.

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Tom Bee

The car should of been pulled backwards first then moved to a place of safety, however its always easier to criticize when not involved. It would of prevented the car from getting damaged and the incident would of been dealt with much quicker.

... but when it was pulled backwards it looked like the rear tow hook failed too....

[Stephen Green]

It is very easy to say this or that should have been done, the simple fact is that the tow strap front or back should have been strong enough for the job.

[Tom Bee]

Originally Posted by mini1400

... but when it was pulled backwards it looked like the rear tow hook failed too....

Your right the same thing could of happened if they pulled it out from the rear first time. However it stood a better chance of working because the car went in forward which means the back end isn't in as deep in the gravel as the front. Also it was very close to the tarmac so it wouldn't of have to of been dragged as far.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

And aren't the marshalls completely in their right when they tell race control politely to sod off as they can only do their best?

That shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation vis a vis the relationship between race control and the marshals 'on post' (in my over 30 years experience of both)
It worries me that we're describing peoples 'rights'. Any situation, such as that being discussed, is dealt with as a team effort with radio and telephone communication between race control and the posts being usually on an 'open line' or continuous basis with trust and co-operation on both sides', often with a clerk 'on the ground'.
As a clerk of the course, if the marshals ever told me to 'sod off - we're doing our best', I would question my own judgement - not theirs.
I wasn't there (I watched in on TV) and my comments are that the marshals at Brands Hatch on Sunday (who are amongst the very best in the world and I would always trust their judgement in dealing with such incidents) did a great job in difficult circumstances.

[simmo151]

Everybody is human and makes mistakes or misjudgements from time to time, but if there were no marshals there would be no racing and from my very short life of being a marshal so far, i think the guys i have seen, do a very good job

[Craner Curves]

Chris James is hardly covering himself in glory on Twitter this evening. Quite amusing to see his meltdown after Andy Jordan and Frank Wrathall were taking the mickey out of his "AV IT" nonsense.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Chris James is hardly covering himself in glory on Twitter this evening. Quite amusing to see his meltdown after Andy Jordan and Frank Wrathall were taking the mickey out of his "AV IT" nonsense.

To be honest I've lost respect for all 3 of them having read all that.....no wonder they drive like idiots if they act like spoilt teenagers off the track....they all need to grow up!