[BTCC] Donington Park GP, 26/27 August, Rds. 22/23/24

[Sodemo]

Grass and gravel works best. Dont need tyre stacks or sausage kerbs or any such thing.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Grass and gravel works best. Dont need tyre stacks or sausage kerbs or any such thing.

Trouble is track licencing for Trucks and Bikes preclude the use of gravel

[The Fat Clerk]

On a more serious note, it seems that Team Parker and possibly others had a load of tools taken from the paddock.[/QUOTE]

Donington does have a lot of previous for this over the last ten years or so.

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

On a more serious note, it seems that Team Parker and possibly others had a load of tools taken from the paddock.

Donington does have a lot of previous for this over the last ten years or so.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't help that after qualifying on Sat or Race two on Sun anybody can just walk in and out unchecked without a ticket. Not the case at Brands or Snett if I recall. Nobody to challenge them. Although I guess it's not part of the job description of ticket people to nab thieves of tools or signs anyway....

Plus, I caught race three at the hairpin, what is it with so many people ditching out before the last race? Am I in the minority in being a miserable old so and so in that I want to get my money worth? I know the car parks are a pain - but they still were an hour after the race!!

[thetool]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Plus, I caught race three at the hairpin, what is it with so many people ditching out before the last race? Am I in the minority in being a miserable old so and so in that I want to get my money worth? I know the car parks are a pain - but they still were an hour after the race!!

I've complained about this multiple times. BTCC Race 3 being the last race of the day is an enormous pain. Instead of having say 50% of the traffic leave at 5 after BTCC Race 3, another 25% after another support race at 5.30 and then finally the last 25% at 6 once racing is done for the day, you end up with 99% of the crowd trying to exit at the same time. The only people this seems to make sense to is ITV.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Plus, I caught race three at the hairpin, what is it with so many people ditching out before the last race? Am I in the minority in being a miserable old so and so in that I want to get my money worth? I know the car parks are a pain - but they still were an hour after the race!!

I’ve seen been to BTCC rounds at every circuit on the UK apart from Croft and Thruxton and I don’t think I’ve ever stayed for the last race. The car parks everywhere are killer and if you leave after race 2, you’ve probably seen one of every support race.

It’s a risk though, I’ve missed some excellent third races over the years and had to catch up at home.

[Craner Curves]

I guess it's the last race because they'd all be trying to pack up and go home when there's still racing going on. I remember they threw a safety car at Mondello one year in the final support race, so the BTCC people could get across the track and off to the airport....

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by thetool

I've complained about this multiple times. BTCC Race 3 being the last race of the day is an enormous pain. Instead of having say 50% of the traffic leave at 5 after BTCC Race 3, another 25% after another support race at 5.30 and then finally the last 25% at 6 once racing is done for the day, you end up with 99% of the crowd trying to exit at the same time. The only people this seems to make sense to is ITV.

You obviously don't remember the days of super tourers at Donington. Many people were allowed to park on the infield. Entry and exit were either through the tunnels just before the chicane to start/finish line or the one between Maclean's and Coppice. I used to marshal in those days and it has been known not to move for an hour trying to get out.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

You obviously don't remember the days of super tourers at Donington. Many people were allowed to park on the infield. Entry and exit were either through the tunnels just before the chicane to start/finish line or the one between Maclean's and Coppice. I used to marshal in those days and it has been known not to move for an hour trying to get out.

I do, and was there for a number of those events. Not saying it was perfect everywhere, but having the departures staggered over the space of an hour/hour and half (as the BTCC feature race was usually done by about 5 and racing usually on until 6.30) meant things were easier. Don't remember it being particularly worse than any other.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I guess it's the last race because they'd all be trying to pack up and go home when there's still racing going on. I remember they threw a safety car at Mondello one year in the final support race, so the BTCC people could get across the track and off to the airport....

I go to most Mondello events - when was that?

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

You obviously don't remember the days of super tourers at Donington. Many people were allowed to park on the infield. Entry and exit were either through the tunnels just before the chicane to start/finish line or the one between Maclean's and Coppice. I used to marshal in those days and it has been known not to move for an hour trying to get out.

Yep, we parked right by Goddards in 1999. Took us over an hour to leave the circuit.

[VIVA GT]

I think there are a number of things to consider here.
Although there are support races I would have thought that the majority of spectators going to a BTCC meeting are going primarily for The BTCC races and expect a full day's worth of entertainment. (Or, if that's not their expectation, this is what the organisers are trying to provide). If 'their' day is finished at say ¾ distance, their entrance fee could appear to be overpriced. Plus, having the BTCC race the final one of the meeting where the latest Championship positions are decided is a suitable Grand Finale to the day.
Secondly there is the TV coverage to consider. Again this programme is billed as The BTCC and they proudly say (something like) 'a full day of live BTCC action'. Finishing the meeting at Race Three is also a suitable dramatic conclusion to their programme, allowing the presenters to sum up the days events and also drum up excitement for the following meeting (and their TV coverage).
I admit that I can remember the time where (for example) Touring Car Races were held after the main event (such as the British Grand Prix) in order to keep keen spectators at the event, allowing the more casual (for want of a less complimentary description) race-goers to leave the circuit early in order to stagger the traffic, but that was a long time ago, plus I would expect that crowd numbers then were a lot higher, plus traffic management measures were nowhere near as effective as those used nowadays.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I go to most Mondello events - when was that?

02 I think. They interrupted an RT2000 race for it.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Grass and gravel works best. Dont need tyre stacks or sausage kerbs or any such thing.

And then those who cut the corner deposit put muck and gravel all over the track which punishes people who did nothing wrong. Not to mention that they wear huge divots which can wreck cars far more than a tyre wall. Snetterton anyone?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

02 I think. They interrupted an RT2000 race for it.

Ah the year I missed! The locals know to park on the outside!

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Trouble is track licencing for Trucks and Bikes preclude the use of gravel

I hear this a lot, and dont pretend to have any real knowledge, however there must be some contradictions here because Donington, Brands and even Silverstone (to a small extent) has gravel traps, so I dont know what criteria is being used to stipulate the exclusion of gravel traps for the case of bikes.

[antnee]

Just done a quick bit of reading about bikes and gravel traps. First point to make, is all gravel traps aren't the same - the main factors being the depth and size of stone. Big stones cause big to bikes and the riders. F1 & FIA have campaigned for years for circuits to remove gravel traps to reduce the amount of safety car interruptions but tried to say it was to help bike racing too, but this isn't 100% true. Gravel traps that go right up to the circuit edge can cause a rider to be high-sided when running wide - which is something you want to avoid.

I have just found out that the likes of Moto GP and BSB use a 'long lap' penalty, which typically uses the extreme outside edge of a corner to serve a short time penalty (typically 2seconds) which is served during the race, instead of being applied to the final results.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by antnee

I have just found out that the likes of Moto GP and BSB use a 'long lap' penalty, which typically uses the extreme outside edge of a corner to serve a short time penalty (typically 2seconds) which is served during the race, instead of being applied to the final results.

You can see one at the Melbourne hairpin.

[The Fat Clerk]

Silverstone's one is at Luffield

[crmalcolm]

In the context of enforcing the inside of a corner (vice tyre stacks), one point to consider is that gravel traps are just that - a 'trap'.
Do we want wheels to be caught in a trap if a corner is cut?

[antnee]

Maybe it just needs a super slippy surface - bit like running over a banana skin in Mario Kart.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think there are a number of things to consider here.
Although there are support races I would have thought that the majority of spectators going to a BTCC meeting are going primarily for The BTCC races and expect a full day's worth of entertainment. (Or, if that's not their expectation, this is what the organisers are trying to provide). If 'their' day is finished at say ¾ distance, their entrance fee could appear to be overpriced. Plus, having the BTCC race the final one of the meeting where the latest Championship positions are decided is a suitable Grand Finale to the day.
Secondly there is the TV coverage to consider. Again this programme is billed as The BTCC and they proudly say (something like) 'a full day of live BTCC action'. Finishing the meeting at Race Three is also a suitable dramatic conclusion to their programme, allowing the presenters to sum up the days events and also drum up excitement for the following meeting (and their TV coverage).
I admit that I can remember the time where (for example) Touring Car Races were held after the main event (such as the British Grand Prix) in order to keep keen spectators at the event, allowing the more casual (for want of a less complimentary description) race-goers to leave the circuit early in order to stagger the traffic, but that was a long time ago, plus I would expect that crowd numbers then were a lot higher, plus traffic management measures were nowhere near as effective as those used nowadays.

Someone has quoted it before on here but there’s also a minimum time between BTCC races I’m sure. To allow for repairs etc. the rounds with late start times aside I do feel itv is starting the coverage later in the day at least this year. I don’t remember last years coverage start times

[thetool]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Someone has quoted it before on here but there’s also a minimum time between BTCC races I’m sure. To allow for repairs etc. the rounds with late start times aside I do feel itv is starting the coverage later in the day at least this year. I don’t remember last years coverage start times

Minimum is 90 minutes. It is somewhat understandable at tracks like Oulton Park that can't start racing until midday, but even there it would be possible to have the last BTCC race start at 5ish. Something like: Race 1 12:20, Race 2 14:30, Race 3 16:40, then time for one or two supports whilst everyone gets home in waves.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by thetool

Minimum is 90 minutes. It is somewhat understandable at tracks like Oulton Park that can't start racing until midday, but even there it would be possible to have the last BTCC race start at 5ish. Something like: Race 1 12:20, Race 2 14:30, Race 3 16:40, then time for one or two supports whilst everyone gets home in waves.

I was at a BTCC meeting at Oulton a few years ago, when there 2 support races after the last BTCC race and getting out of the circuit was just as bad as it was this year when Race 3 was the last of the day.

[Sodemo]

I think it helped years ago when there was only two races. Usually the first race was maybe 2nd or 3rd on the intinery at about 12, then the second race was at about 14:30, which then meant time for 2-3 races after.