DTM 2022

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I would not think, that it might chanve something, if you get a point for being last.
But maybe i would say, that even saved tyres from last race cannot be used in next next race/session. So no one would start to save tyres through DNF.

I think combination of both ideas would be the best. Points system change is necessary IMO, why not going for such where everyone gets points? Sometimes even a few can decide who wins the title.
But your idea is also something that DTM should definitely consider. A driver pulling out because they have nothing to fight for would be an equivalent of a football team leaving a pitch after 80 mins when losing 0-3.

[canaglia]

Honestly I think that the FIA point system is one of few good things FIA made in last decade. Other point system like IMSA or the old one used in VLN are quite mental

[GregoryDG]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I'd go even further and adopt something like 50-44-40-38-36-34-32-30-28-26-24 and then 23-22-20-19...

I can understand, but this gives a huge disadvantage in case of a DNF...

Imagine one car winning two races (= 100 points) and then crashing in the third one (= still 100 points), compared to a car finishing 10th in each of these three races (= 78). Doesn't really make sense to me.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by GregoryDG

I can understand, but this gives a huge disadvantage in case of a DNF...

Imagine one car winning two races (= 100 points) and then crashing in the third one (= still 100 points), compared to a car finishing 10th in each of these three races (= 78). Doesn't really make sense to me.

guess this is the reason why IMSA gives points also to dnf cars, making things even more chaotic...

[Matt K]

It's true what you guys say but in Supercars such a system works very well.
But, if this is too much, at least a BTCC-style system awarding Top 15 finishers would be better than the current one.
The 'FIA' one is okay but when there are almost 30 drivers in a very competitive series, a wider point-paying window would create a situation where even smaller teams have a feeling they can fight at least for some points. Also, in a field of 30 drivers, 12th place should mean more than 22nd. Now it doesn't matter if you finish 12th or 22nd because you still leave the race empty-handed. This also increases chances of drivers pulling out because a 15-th place finish wouldn't matter anything.

However, if rules strictly connected to tyre usage would eliminate the problem of retiring, I'd still be happy even without altering the points system.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Matt K

It's true what you guys say but in Supercars such a system works very well.
But, if this is too much, at least a BTCC-style system awarding Top 15 finishers would be better than the current one.
The 'FIA' one is okay but when there are almost 30 drivers in a very competitive series, a wider point-paying window would create a situation where even smaller teams have a feeling they can fight at least for some points. Also, in a field of 30 drivers, 12th place should mean more than 22nd. Now it doesn't matter if you finish 12th or 22nd because you still leave the race empty-handed. This also increases chances of drivers pulling out because a 15-th place finish wouldn't matter anything.

However, if rules strictly connected to tyre usage would eliminate the problem of retiring, I'd still be happy even without altering the points system.

oh well, that would be easy to fix... do you retire because you know you're not going to score points or in general for no provable technical related reasons? -5 points and think it twice next time.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by canaglia

oh well, that would be easy to fix... do you retire because you know you're not going to score points or in general for no provable technical related reasons? -5 points and think it twice next time.

True but team orders have been forbidden for years in some championships and still there were ways to move around it. Similarly with this, who knows, some teams could also find ways to prove the reason behind retiring. I imagine this could be difficult to implement in practice.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Matt K

at least a BTCC-style system awarding Top 15 finishers would be better than the current one

BTCC has a 20-17-15-13 points scale, which is too flat in my opinion. I like F1's 25-18-15-12.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Matt K

True but team orders have been forbidden for years in some championships and still there were ways to move around it. Similarly with this, who knows, some teams could also find ways to prove the reason behind retiring. I imagine this could be difficult to implement in practice.

Don't know... at example last year fast sophia retired a couple of times when she was 2-3s off the pace and I recall that during an interview after she retired at zolder race, one of her engineers was probably lying according to the hide the pain expression on his face telling that brake pedal got too long (whatever this may actually mean lol)... so if you retire and you can't prove the technical reason of your retirement, you should be penalized.
That's just my idea to fix the retirements issue of course, but you know...
I always found dtm races very boring since... 2015?? so it's not things will change for real anyhow.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Don't know... at example last year fast sophia retired a couple of times when she was 2-3s off the pace and I recall that during an interview after she retired at zolder race, one of her engineers was probably lying according to the hide the pain expression on his face telling that brake pedal got too long (whatever this may actually mean lol)... so if you retire and you can't prove the technical reason of your retirement, you should be penalized.
That's just my idea to fix the retirements issue of course, but you know...
I always found dtm races very boring since... 2015?? so it's not things will change for real anyhow.

Well, yes, depending how it could actually be checked and justified. In theory it sounds good, no doubt about that, I'm just concerned about execution of it in practice. Probably won't happen anyway

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

BTCC has a 20-17-15-13 points scale, which is too flat in my opinion. I like F1's 25-18-15-12.

True it is a bit flat and true, the FIA one is alright but for 30 cars that are currently in the DTM, the latter is perhaps too narrow. On the other hand, DTM doesn't have stuff like TBLs in BTCC or REC (whatever it is called now) in Supercars so the grid is less stable I think. Would seem pointless if it's 30 cars now and a new system introduced and then next year it's 22-24 cars and debate starts again whether the old system should be back.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Matt K

True it is a bit flat and true, the FIA one is alright but for 30 cars that are currently in the DTM, the latter is perhaps too narrow. On the other hand, DTM doesn't have stuff like TBLs in BTCC or REC (whatever it is called now) in Supercars so the grid is less stable I think. Would seem pointless if it's 30 cars now and a new system introduced and then next year it's 22-24 cars and debate starts again whether the old system should be back.

Simple solution in theory would be to say if we get 20-23 full season entries we use points system A, 24-26 entries we use points system B, 27-30 entires we use point system C.

And each variant is scaled to accommodate that number of entries

Not that they would ever go that far into adopting something like that

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Simple solution in theory would be to say if we get 20-23 full season entries we use points system A, 24-26 entries we use points system B, 27-30 entires we use point system C.

And each variant is scaled to accommodate that number of entries

Not that they would ever go that far into adopting something like that

Yes, don't think they could. That's why I suppose the current one will stay. At the end of the day in the old times there were lots of cars entered and also just top 10 was awarded with points.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Don't know... at example last year fast sophia retired a couple of times when she was 2-3s off the pace and I recall that during an interview after she retired at zolder race, one of her engineers was probably lying according to the hide the pain expression on his face telling that brake pedal got too long (whatever this may actually mean lol)... so if you retire and you can't prove the technical reason of your retirement, you should be penalized.
That's just my idea to fix the retirements issue of course, but you know...
I always found dtm races very boring since... 2015?? so it's not things will change for real anyhow.

I doubt, that this is checkable from organisers. In the end teams could "fake" a problem within electronics. And how long can organisers check these things with 30 cars around????

EDIT: BTW, Timo Glock makes a guest start at next race in Imola, specially for anniversary of BMW M (50 years). He will race a BMW M4 GT3 in iconic traditional BMW M livery, his team is the Ceccato Team from Italien GT3, with team boss/manager Roberto Ravaglia.

Hope they will have some more surprises for this anniversary on the Norisring race in Nurenberg...

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I doubt, that this is checkable from organisers. In the end teams could "fake" a problem within electronics. And how long can organisers check these things with 30 cars around????

EDIT: BTW, Timo Glock makes a guest start at next race in Imola, specially for anniversary of BMW M (50 years). He will race a BMW M4 GT3 in iconic traditional BMW M livery, his team is the Ceccato Team from Italien GT3, with team boss/manager Roberto Ravaglia.

Hope they will have some more surprises for this anniversary on the Norisring race in Nurenberg...

I have the same concerns regarding faking problems.

As for Glock, will be nice to see him back. If I remember correctly, Ceccato tried to enter the DTM for this season so who knows, maybe circumstances (mostly the financial ones I imagine) will allow them to have a full campaign next year.

Btw I wish the guest drivers could earn points in their guest starts. Would make it more interesting.

[chunterer]

Did the Cecatto outfit evolve from ROAL which wasalso run by Ravaglia?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Did the Cecatto outfit evolve from ROAL which wasalso run by Ravaglia?

Yes, they were bought out, so Ravaglia is no longer the owner, but still running things.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Yes, they were bought out, so Ravaglia is no longer the owner, but still running things.

So even the car dealerships were bought out from him??




@Matt K: What can a guest driver for one race could do with his points?? In the end someone will bring 10 guest drivers, to prevent his competitors from catching points at the end of the season.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Yes, they were bought out, so Ravaglia is no longer the owner, but still running things.

Great, thanks for the info. I missed all this when it happened.

[Racing Harz]

Nicki Thiim stated at Le Mans that he has finished with the DTM and will not start in Imola.
https://gt-place.com/2022/06/13/nick...m-rueckzug-an/

[Racing Harz]

T3 won´t race in Imola.
https://gt-place.com/2022/06/14/dtm-...im-bestaetigt/

[Matt K]

Well that escalated quickly.
Pretty disappointing for him to give up so quickly but well, that might be understood.
I reckon T3 will not return this year.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Racing Harz

Nicki Thiim stated at Le Mans that he has finished with the DTM and will not start in Imola.
https://gt-place.com/2022/06/13/nick...m-rueckzug-an/

Saying he's finished with the DTM is a bit of a stretch. According to Speedweek, Thiim's priority is to stay in DTM and Rostek is working on possible options.

[Racing Harz]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Saying he's finished with the DTM is a bit of a stretch. According to Speedweek, Thiim's priority is to stay in DTM and Rostek is working on possible options.

Speedweek changed the quote this morning

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Racing Harz

Speedweek changed the quote this morning

You're right, I can see the correction under their article I have seen only the corrected version