DTM 2023

[v8supes]

I tend to agree BertMK2. I can take it or leave it now. You can watch so many GT3 championships many with the same pro drivers in that eventually it all feels very samey.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Interesting - for me it's lost a lot of the appeal, it's 'just another GT3 championship' now - and you had ADAC GT Masters for that in Germany anyway. The DTM specific cars were much more spectacular to watch (even if the racing wasn't always as close).

Do you prefer DTM to GTWCE for example? For me I think now it's more down to which circuit they're at than the championship.

Well, if I were to compare the GT3 DTM with the pre-GT3 era then of course I'd take the latter. Part of me has a hope hidden somewhere that eventually DTM will ditch GT3 regulations to move to something 'unique.' Having said that, I must admit there are still some aspects that are better now that in the "pre-GT3" era, although yeah, the whole appeal of the championship has changed a lot.

But my comparison in the previous post was about DTM now, under ADAC versus the GT3 DTM under ITR. When comparing two GT3 DTM 'eras', there's something a lot better about the ADAC DTM. Probably can't explain it fully but that's just the 'feel' of things.

As for DTM vs GTWC, I definitely prefer the former. GTWC is kind of divided between sprint and endurance, lots of different drivers across the season, etc. In the DTM at least I know "who the drivers are" + I prefer the single driver format.

[Bcarr6]

Kinda loosely agree with the above.

I'd love to see:

GTWC focused on 8 Endurance race events a year only, no Sprint
DTM continues on the GT3 PRO, 2x 60min single driver format
ADAC GT takes the GT3 Pro-Am & Am-Am 2x 60min 2 driver format from GTWC Sprint

I'd happily bury GT Open for this 3 series European format, the grids and racing is great but the footage quality is from the 2000s

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Kinda loosely agree with the above.

I'd love to see:

GTWC focused on 8 Endurance race events a year only, no Sprint
DTM continues on the GT3 PRO, 2x 60min single driver format
ADAC GT takes the GT3 Pro-Am & Am-Am 2x 60min 2 driver format from GTWC Sprint

I'd happily bury GT Open for this 3 series European format, the grids and racing is great but the footage quality is from the 2000s

Yep, that sounds reasonable and brings even more order to the GT3 'world.' Would like to see it happen. Driver changes in 60-minute races are a bit of an art for art's sake anyway so making GTWC focus solely on endurance races would make a lot of sense while DTM would be the "touring car" format and ADAC GT would create a platform for some wealthy amateurs or young drivers chasing either a GTWC or a DTM seat in the future for whom sharing a car with a paydriver would make sense financially.

[Matt K]

At the upcoming round at Nürburgring Maximilian Paul will replace Mick Wishofer at Grasser. The reason - probably financial issues. Still not certain if Paul will finish the season or there's more rotations to come. Wishofer's return at some point is not ruled out either.

And Sandro Holzem will debut in the second Project 1 BMW at Nürburgring. Quite curious how he goes although not expecting anything special. My understanding is it might be his only round this season, deemed a 'guest start.'

[GT3_Fan]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Kinda loosely agree with the above.

I'd love to see:

GTWC focused on 8 Endurance race events a year only, no Sprint
DTM continues on the GT3 PRO, 2x 60min single driver format
ADAC GT takes the GT3 Pro-Am & Am-Am 2x 60min 2 driver format from GTWC Sprint

I'd happily bury GT Open for this 3 series European format, the grids and racing is great but the footage quality is from the 2000s

Disagree. GTWC format is fine as it is now. I like their sprint races just as much as the enduros. The one issue they need to solve is the hideous safety car issue.

DTM seems good too. Perhaps they need to get teams who will field a couple of non Italian and German manufacturer cars in the series. Without losing any of the current 6 makes of course.

[Matt K]

Great races at the Nurburgring this weekend, really enjoyed both of them. It's been the best GT3 DTM season so far IMO. Looks like it's becoming Preining's title to lose now. What a race for Maximilian Paul though! First ever DTM weekend and a win. Wonder if he stays with Grasser for the rest of the season.

[porsche962fan]

after the first 3 or so laps it became rather dull , there were some incidents

[Matt K]

Yeah, Lausitzring rarely provides for a particularly exciting show. But must say the Bortolotti vs Feller battle was quite entertaining on Sunday even though the latter clearly couldn't pass even though he was the faster of the two.
Looks like there are at least three drivers who will fight for the title till the end although probably some more can join the battle.

[porsche962fan]

another snoozefest round hardly anything happens besides some opening lap incidents

[Matt K]

Sadly as much as Sachsenring is a cool, old-school track, it doesn't create many opportunities for overtaking. A good thing is the thrilling fight for the championship between Bortolotti and Preining.

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

another snoozefest round hardly anything happens besides some opening lap incidents

I agree to a point but then i guess all series have their good races and their bad races.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by v8supes

I agree to a point but then i guess all series have their good races and their bad races.

you can say that Miami Vice season 4 had some good episodes, but the amount and cringeness of bad ones totally overshadows them

[Matt K]

Great season's end for Preining, double P1, double win and the championship title. He and Manthey were really consistent this year and competitive almost everywhere in every race.
Have to say I've enjoyed that season, more than the last one and certainly a lot more than the 2021. Be interesting to see how the ADAC DTM develops in the future. Points system change was a good decision IMO, also liked the Penalty Lap introduction and the races were a lot cleaner than last year. Even this weekend at Hockenheimring, despite some fierce fights everything stayed civil. Sure, some races were rather boring but wouldn't expect a BTCC-style action in every race that lasts an hour and where the GT3 cars race.

IMO would be better to scrap the performance weights for next year - with BOP so prevalent, the ballast system is not needed, especially in such a highly professional series as DTM. Would also be nice to add two rounds to the calendar but that's impossible for now. Anyway, my impression is ADAC's takeover of the DTM did a lot of good, there's much more stability now, no unnecessary rivalry and stuff like that. ADAC seems a lot more resourceful than ITR, which - after the manufacturers' departure - was just fighting for a survival. For current times ADAC's leadership is desired and also quite fitting to have such a large organisation standing behind - whatever one may say - the biggest German motorsport series.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Great season's end for Preining, double P1, double win and the championship title. He and Manthey were really consistent this year and competitive almost everywhere in every race.
Have to say I've enjoyed that season, more than the last one and certainly a lot more than the 2021. Be interesting to see how the ADAC DTM develops in the future. Points system change was a good decision IMO, also liked the Penalty Lap introduction and the races were a lot cleaner than last year. Even this weekend at Hockenheimring, despite some fierce fights everything stayed civil. Sure, some races were rather boring but wouldn't expect a BTCC-style action in every race that lasts an hour and where the GT3 cars race.

IMO would be better to scrap the performance weights for next year - with BOP so prevalent, the ballast system is not needed, especially in such a highly professional series as DTM. Would also be nice to add two rounds to the calendar but that's impossible for now. Anyway, my impression is ADAC's takeover of the DTM did a lot of good, there's much more stability now, no unnecessary rivalry and stuff like that. ADAC seems a lot more resourceful than ITR, which - after the manufacturers' departure - was just fighting for a survival. For current times ADAC's leadership is desired and also quite fitting to have such a large organisation standing behind - whatever one may say - the biggest German motorsport series.

Well put, the real question on the ADAC front for 2024 is does GT Masters survive

[FIRE]

Based on the amount of cars I would say no.
GT4 has good numbers otherwise they could merge GT3 and GT4 like in British GT and other GT series.

[Akrapovic]

Discussing point (because I need input but it's interesting chat).

Is DTM still a touring car series to you? Or is it now a Sportscar Series? I don't actually know where to classify it now.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Discussing point (because I need input but it's interesting chat).

Is DTM still a touring car series to you? Or is it now a Sportscar Series? I don't actually know where to classify it now.

Personally - I think it was debatable for many years.
2019 was closer to Sportscar than Touring Car.
But with the adoption of GT3-based regulations from 2021 onwards, it is definitely not a Touring Car series.

[FIRE]

It's a GT series.

[FIRE]

Mystery continues on Bortolotti’s DTM Nurburgring 'technical problem'
The exact nature of the technical issue that prevented Lamborghini ace Mirko Bortolotti from contesting the second Nurburgring DTM race remains a mystery after the end of the 2023 season.

SSR Performance driver Bortolotti was unable to take the start in the second Eifel race in August after his Lamborghini Huracan GT3 stopped on track in qualifying earlier in the day. The problem occurred at the worst-possible time for the Italian, as he had underlined his title credentials just the previous day with a lights-to-flag win in mixed conditions.

Bortolotti went on to finish second in the standings, 33 points behind Porsche's title winner Thomas Preining, indicating the significance of the DNS in deciding the outcome of this year’s championship battle.

Several months on, there is still no clarity as to why Bortolotti was consigned to the garage on a day Lamborghini had a car capable of winning the race, as attested by Maximilian Paul’s shock result with the Grasser team.

"We are not commenting on this," was SSR team boss Mario Schuhbauer’s response when Autosport’s sister title Motosport-Total.com asked if the squad was now willing to provide more information about Bortolotti’s technical problem last month.

The team had also remained silent when repeated attempts were made to reach out for an answer in the immediate aftermath of the race.

Lamborghini has also refused to profile any clarity on the situation, stating “we don't release details about a single tech issue that happened months ago".

At Hockenheim, another Lamborghini spokesperson told Motorsport-Total.com that the cause of the failure was ‘throttle bodies’, the part of the air intake system that controls how much air flows into an engine’s combustion chamber.

The second Evo version of the Huracan GT3 that was introduced in 2023 has ten electronically-actuated throttle bodies with titanium valves, whereas the predecessor only had two throttle bodies, one per cylinder bank.

It doesn't sound unusual for a new part to have a problem. What is curious however, according to those familiar with the car, is that it's neither particularly difficult to recognise such a problem nor to solve it quickly. Given Bortolotti was SSR’s main candidate for the title, the team would have left no stone unturned to get his car ready for the race.

Is it possible that the problem was unrelated to the throttle body? Lamborghini is said to have been talking about engine damage, as Motorsport-Total.com learned from a reliable source. This would also partly explain why the issue is being kept a secret.

For marketing reasons, manufacturers don't want a broken engine to be seen as the root cause for a driver missing a race - and potentially losing out on the championship,

...

Qualifying began at 9:05am and Bortolotti’s car broke down in the Mercedes Arena with two minutes and 50 seconds on the clock. Following a brief red flag, the session officially finished at 9:30am and the cars were then not allowed to be touched until 10:55 due to the parc-ferme regulations.

However, SSR made no effort to start the repair work early, with a spokesperson for the German Motorsport Association (DMSB) confirming "there was no request from the team to get the car out earlier".

Breaking the parc ferme rules would have meant a breach of the regulations and disqualification from the session. But without having set a lap time, Bortolotti was going to have to start from the back of the grid anyway.

According to an expert, it takes between two-and-a-half to three hours to change in engine in latest Evo spec of the Lamborghini Huracan. If the car was towed back into the SSR pits by 10am at the latest and a spare unit was in working order, then the team would have had three-and-a-half hours to change the engine before the race start at 1:30pm.

SSR initially announced that Bortolotti would take the start from the pitlane, before deregistering the car entirely from the race. This meant that the car was not checked by the officials after the race. So why did the outfit not try to fix the problem in time?

"There are only two possibilities," said one paddock insider behind closed doors. "A lack of experience or expertise, or they didn't want to start and might have been disqualified."

Bortolotti on retirement: "I don't understand it yet"
Even Bortolotti remains puzzled as to why he was forced to miss the race on a weekend that he finally rose to the fore after a slow start to the season.

"The Nurburgring Sunday was very strange, very negative, very weird. I still don't understand it, but it's part of it," he told broadcaster ran.de.

“We simply couldn't start. We tried to check everything until just before the race, the whole pit was on my car. Those are the kind of days that are part of it, that was also a bit strange for me."

...

Full story on:
https://www.autosport.com/dtm/news/m...blem/10555152/

This dead silence is strange.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Full story on:
https://www.autosport.com/dtm/news/m...blem/10555152/

This dead silence is strange.

It certainly is a strange/weird situation.

Also wasn't this on Motorsport-Total weeks ago.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

It certainly is a strange/weird situation.

Also wasn't this on Motorsport-Total weeks ago.

Yes, Motorsport-Total and Autosport are owned by the same company.

[Matt K]

Yes, it was. But anyway, the whole situation is very strange and mysterious, wonder if we ever really learn what this was all about but seems like SSR wouldn't like us to know.

[FIRE]

If it's just a mechanical issue why be so secretly about it? Every racing fan understands reliability is part of motorsport.

Interesting to see if SSR returns with Lamborghini.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Yes, it was. But anyway, the whole situation is very strange and mysterious, wonder if we ever really learn what this was all about but seems like SSR wouldn't like us to know.

Makes you wonder if it was an issue caused by the team, like as mentioned in the article (lack of lubrication). But if it was engine failure, then why not change it, they had plenty of time.

Originally Posted by FIRE

If it's just a mechanical issue why be so secretly about it? Every racing fan understands reliability is part of motorsport.

Interesting to see if SSR returns with Lamborghini.

From photos they posted on Instagram, they have stripped at least one car for rebuild.