BTCC entries/rumours that never came to be

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

2001 was very definitely the worst BTCC season of all time

1986. Example: http://touringcarracing.net/Races/19...on%20BSCC.html

[chunterer]

'85, 86 and 87 were the lowest ebb in the series history.
Manufacturer interest was limited and the organisers reluctance to make class A structure adjustments didn't help.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by pimmy

1986. Example: http://touringcarracing.net/Races/19...on%20BSCC.html

2005 was certainly a letdown with only 12 cars to begin with.

At least 2000 and 2001 had the Production Class to boost grid numbers.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by chunterer

'85, 86 and 87 were the lowest ebb in the series history.
Manufacturer interest was limited and the organisers reluctance to make class A structure adjustments didn't help.

Well that really started in '84 when Austin Rover Group withdrew all their entries after the Rovers were retrospectively excluded from the '83 Season.

[S griffin]

Yes that wasn't a great time for the series. They had a great number of cars at the time and had a good base for the future. Although how just was the punishment to the Rovers? I guess we'll never know how justified it was. Big shame as the series was looking very good at the time. At least it did get better again after 86, after some tough times, but it really didn't help when ARG pulled out

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes that wasn't a great time for the series. They had a great number of cars at the time and had a good base for the future. Although how just was the punishment to the Rovers? I guess we'll never know how justified it was. Big shame as the series was looking very good at the time. At least it did get better again after 86, after some tough times, but it really didn't help when ARG pulled out

It certainly didn't. I can tell just by doing the research.

In my lifetime, 2001 and 2005 were the low points, the former might as well have not had a Touring class at all.

[S griffin]

As I said, you do wonder if the punishment fitted the crime. Although thankfully the series survived and got better

Of course 2001 was a tough year, but it did well under the circumstances. And although 2005 did get bigger grids as the season went on, you do wonder how they started with so few. I don't think them getting rid of the production class prior to 2004 was the reason, it was later justified that they then allowed S2000 cars in. But it was a shame that we didn't have a massive grid to begin with in 2005

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

As I said, you do wonder if the punishment fitted the crime. Although thankfully the series survived and got better

Of course 2001 was a tough year, but it did well under the circumstances. And although 2005 did get bigger grids as the season went on, you do wonder how they started with so few. I don't think them getting rid of the production class prior to 2004 was the reason, it was later justified that they then allowed S2000 cars in. But it was a shame that we didn't have a massive grid to begin with in 2005

Well I wasn't born until 6 years after the Rover exclusion so I've only read about it but in hindsight, it does seem a rather harsh punishment, especially as the matter was only settled several months into the following season so it's hardly surprising that the series suffered for grid numbers during the 1985-1987 period.

I'm quite sure there is more to the low grid numbers of 2005 than just no longer having the Production Class to boost them. I just felt that was at the very least, a contributing factor, makes you wonder if it had made any difference if the ETCC had adopted the BTC-TOURING regs instead of Super 2000?

[Nononsensecapeesh]

From the touring car times 2010 BTCC preview:

There are also a number of BTCC favourites on the sidelines without drivers currently, including Jonny Adam, James Nash and Adam Jones.

(Of course, Nash joined Triple 8 after they were forced to release Glew and Gio)

Every man and his dog knows about the third WSR BMW that may or may not already have Turkington’s name stickered onto the rear window, but the reigning Champion says he doesn’t have the budget to compete, yet.

Tech-Speed are another team who declared they had a third car should a driver with budget be found, with Alan Blencowe admitting he was “very much trying to get back into the BTCC” and that Marvin Humphries team were his preferred option.

When announcing their BTCC return with Tom Boardman, Special Tuning said they hoped to secure a second driver to run alongside Boardman, but all is currently silent on the matter.

For all three of these teams, and Mike Earle’s Team Aon, then no doubt if a paying driver appeared mid-season an extra car could be seen on track.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Well that really started in '84 when Austin Rover Group withdrew all their entries after the Rovers were retrospectively excluded from the '83 Season.

You are correct. ARH pulling 6 cars out of the series, indirectly led to BMW GB pulling out after just one year, Toyota GB looking for publicity over ability (Sheene) and Mitsubishi not throwing their weight behind Brodie for what would have been a serious title possibility.

It's only thanks to Rouse with the new Sierra, Longman's Escort Turbo, ARDT & Drury Alfetta's, Goode's Nissan and the Brooklyn/Hodgetts Escorts that the series had any top level credibility across the classes.

It would have and should have been very different in the eyes of the manufacturer/importers marketing depts.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by chunterer

You are correct. ARH pulling 6 cars out of the series, indirectly led to BMW GB pulling out after just one year, Toyota GB looking for publicity over ability (Sheene) and Mitsubishi not throwing their weight behind Brodie for what would have been a serious title possibility.

It's only thanks to Rouse with the new Sierra, Longman's Escort Turbo, ARDT & Drury Alfetta's, Goode's Nissan and the Brooklyn/Hodgetts Escorts that the series had any top level credibility across the classes.

It would have and should have been very different in the eyes of the manufacturer/importers marketing depts.

Thank you. Not bad for someone who wasn't even around at the time and who only has his own research to fall back on.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

I do know from the now-defunct threads on the official BTCC website that there was a thread claiming the 2000 grids could have been bigger.

Here's what I can remember:

A Nissan effort of some description, largely to keep Aiello and Leslie in the BTCC.
A possible return for Nettan Lindgren, also in a Nissan.
The proposed Volkswagen Bora effort.
Alfa Romeo looking to enter after their failed '98 bid before they settled on the revived ETCC.
Rover expressed an interest in entering.
Lee Brookes' failed return that got as far as the official entry list.
ADR Motorsport looking to expand to 2 cars for Pinkney and Mark Blair.
The LPG Vectra for Mark Ticehurst.
Arena Motorsport and the ex-works Hondas that ended up going to Sweden.
The 11 entries that did materialize obviously.

Does anyone know if I've missed anything out?

[S griffin]

Just looking at those rumoured, it’s intriguing to see how many there could have been in that top class instead of the eleven. Add Brookes’ Honda, ADR’s two Vauxhalls, the LPG Vauxhall, the Bora, plus one or two extra Nissans, we would have had at best 18 I’d say and there would be no need for the production class

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Just looking at those rumoured, it’s intriguing to see how many there could have been in that top class instead of the eleven. Add Brookes’ Honda, ADR’s two Vauxhalls, the LPG Vauxhall, the Bora, plus one or two extra Nissans, we would have had at best 18 I’d say and there would be no need for the production class

Not bad, considering I had to rely on my memory just to conjure up that list, if anyone else on here used to comment on the old official BTCC website forum then I am all ears if I missed anything out.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...orea-prospects - There's a brief mention that Hyundai were considering the possibility of entering the 1993 BTCC.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/january-1993/33/full-team-ahead - A year earlier, this was indeed a possibility though it was also possible Roberto Ravaglia would be Soper's team-mate, no mention of Winkelhock.

[S griffin]

I know BMW initially pulled out of the BTCC at the end of 1992 due to a disagreement over rules. Then ironically Schnitzer BMW pulled out of the DTM due to a rules disagreement, hence why they ended up in the BTCC

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I know BMW initially pulled out of the BTCC at the end of 1992 due to a disagreement over rules. Then ironically Schnitzer BMW pulled out of the DTM due to a rules disagreement, hence why they ended up in the BTCC

Yes I remember that from watching the first round of the 1993 BTCC on BBC Grandstand.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

A few interesting rumours relating to 2002:

A possible Renault return.
Lexus entering a works team.
Neal linked to a return to Team Dynamics in an Astra or going to MG, either to replace Hughes or as a 3rd Driver, possibly competing with Mansell for the latter.
Various manufacturers, including Volvo, entering.
The late John Batchelor linked to running a Lexus.
The late Will Hoy was apparently interested in a return.

I thought 2001 was rife with rumours.

[S griffin]

I seem to remember the Works Lexus rumour. Was that anything with Vic Lee, who was planning to run a couple of Lexi for Soper and Erdos, I think?

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I seem to remember the Works Lexus rumour. Was that anything with Vic Lee, who was planning to run a couple of Lexi for Soper and Erdos, I think?

Vic Lee was linked to running Lexus' after Peugeot withdrew again. I think Eaves became a candidate after Soper was forced to retire on medical grounds after his Brands crash.

[thetool]

Most of the stuff in here seems to be getting made-up at the moment.

VLR were in discussion with TMSR about linking up to run Lexus in 2002 and were intending to push on regardless of partnering or not. However a lack of time, money, the collapse of TMSR and concerns as to how competitive the IS200 could become under BTCT rules lead to Vic continuing with the 406s into 2002.

If VLR managed to stay in the BTCC (as they did), Eaves was always going to remain with the team as it was he who brought in the Halfords sponsorship. Tim Harvey becoming available at the same time his existing team was collapsing (JSM) was very convenient timing for both parties.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by thetool

Most of the stuff in here seems to be getting made-up at the moment.

VLR were in discussion with TMSR about linking up to run Lexus in 2002 and were intending to push on regardless of partnering or not. However a lack of time, money, the collapse of TMSR and concerns as to how competitive the IS200 could become under BTCT rules lead to Vic continuing with the 406s into 2002.

If VLR managed to stay in the BTCC (as they did), Eaves was always going to remain with the team as it was he who brought in the Halfords sponsorship. Tim Harvey becoming available at the same time his existing team was collapsing (JSM) was very convenient timing for both parties.

I'm just researching past threads and articles to make sure I'm not just making things up.

I will admit I went a bit wrong with the Thorney Motorsport rumour earlier in the thread. They were always intending to run the Insignia but Tom Onslow-Cole was linked to them before he joined Team Aon.

Anyone can make a mistake.

[S griffin]

I have a fair idea of entries that were supposed to happen, but didn't because of circumstances or something else. I've seen enough articles to know what was close enough to happen

I wonder how much longer Thorney were planning to go on for? Obviously they had the Insignia and it's interesting that TOC was linked to them. Obviously Arena was the better option for him.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I have a fair idea of entries that were supposed to happen, but didn't because of circumstances or something else. I've seen enough articles to know what was close enough to happen

I wonder how much longer Thorney were planning to go on for? Obviously they had the Insignia and it's interesting that TOC was linked to them. Obviously Arena was the better option for him.

Their original intention was to enter the BTCC in 2010.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Their original intention was to enter the BTCC in 2010.

Yes - and a lot of that came straight from John in this forum:

12 Sep 2008

Originally Posted by Thorney

we hope to be in BTCC in two years time under our own steam and I have huge respect for those teams in it without manufacturer support

10 Jun 2009 [regarding the NGTC regs]

Originally Posted by Thorney

We've spent the last year putting together a technical team for the very purpose of building our own car (we'd heard a lot of what was happening for some time, albeit not the detail or frankly the extent) and the more we learn the better it suits us, just timing is a bit out as its not until 2011 and we need it 2010 for sponsorship commitments.

The Aug 2009 then carried an article about Thorney and T-O-C

'We've made no real secret as to our plans for BTCC next season but the change of regs have thrown a spanner in it somewhat as uncertainty is not a good bed fellow for sponsors. If we can get a better idea on what is likely to happen we can commit but at the moment all we really know is that its either BMW or Vauxhalls, as thats all we tune for the road and racing is part and parcel of our road car business.'