Historic Racers In Europe - Carnet Requirements?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Minor update on not needing Carnets for Euro trips .
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...161/ce1246.pdf
Link to form for taking goods out on a temporary basis .
Explained here with the other details for not needing a carnet for your comp car .
https://www.gov.uk/taking-goods-out-...duplicate-list

The pdf for the listing does seem to imply that it only covers tools and equipment that may be required; it doesn't mention the car/s itself/themselves. And that, to me at least, appears to be as reported before, and linked to on this thread, although I don't think that the form required had been published before.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The pdf for the listing does seem to imply that it only covers tools and equipment that may be required; it doesn't mention the car/s itself/themselves. And that, to me at least, appears to be as reported before, and linked to on this thread, although I don't think that the form required had been published before.

There have been several postings showing that the car does not need a carnet if it is registered and with its owner .
http://www.autoaddicts.co.uk/brexit-...MTJYaX45Cdq5XA
But I put this latest one up as it shows the form for not needing any carnets for spares etc .

[Gerard C]

Your last link mentions the mandatory sticker "Attention angles morts" but I think there are exemptions at least in France, for car-trailers and tow-trucks for instance, reasons are obvious (impossible to place).

[Newall Andy]

Hi all.
We delivered a GT40 back to France last week, it was transported back in a trailer purchased here ( UK ) by the French client. The Sprinter, trailer and GT40 passed into France without any issues. The race car and trailer stayed in France and the Sprinter returned empty on its own.
Not one customs officer asked any questions.

I am testing at Hockenheim a week Wednesday.. see how that goes.

Andy.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Newall Andy

Hi all.
We delivered a GT40 back to France last week, it was transported back in a trailer purchased here ( UK ) by the French client. The Sprinter, trailer and GT40 passed into France without any issues. The race car and trailer stayed in France and the Sprinter returned empty on its own.
Not one customs officer asked any questions.

I am testing at Hockenheim a week Wednesday.. see how that goes.

Andy.

This is all quite encouraging compared to the "doom and gloom" predictions that we had seen Let's hope it continues in this vein

[L-G Sjöberg]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

This is all quite encouraging compared to the "doom and gloom" predictions that we had seen Let's hope it continues in this vein

But I still assume you would need to have the carnet handy, just in case customs want to know what you are towing...

[john ruston]

Assume no one is bothering asking questions as the duties will not be applied until 1/4.
You would think it will get interesting for a time at that point!

[terence]

Will they only be joking though?

[midgetman]

I don't think customs officers are known for their sense of humour

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Gerard C]

They are not. And some special sections are quite aware about the real price of a classic. Talking about his better than new Cobra, a bloke tried to argue it was an old wreck. This was not appreciated at all. They know the business. And they use inter web and read the auction results. Dont mess with those people.

[Newall Andy]

Hi.
Just boarded the train at the tunnel on my way to test for Gotcha at Hockenhiem this Wednesday.
Van full of bits again, but just declared I was testing. They were happy with all the elite sports person bit ( whatever ! ).
Then the customs pulled me over, gulp , looked in the back and I mean it’s full... shut the door and sent me on my way.
Good mate of mine took a car to a wind tunnel in France last week with all the correct paperwork and spent 6 hrs trying to get it stamped. No one knew what to do !
Andy

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Newall Andy

Good mate of mine took a car to a wind tunnel in France last week with all the correct paperwork and spent 6 hrs trying to get it stamped. No one knew what to do !
Andy

Begs the question, Andy, where; this side of the water or over there?

Oh, good luck with the testing.

[Newall Andy]

France
No idea what was meant to happen

[terence]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I don't think customs officers are known for their sense of humour

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

What,not even on April 1st?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by terence

What,not even on April 1st?

Everything will change after this date, from 12 PM plus one minute.

[john ruston]

Just had a message of two mates importing 280 k gbp car from Blighty to Germany
Just been advised 7% duty plus clearance costs and still seeing where VAT applied
Exciting!

[Gerard C]

My understanding of the french rules is that VAT applies only on the growth margin made if those people are professionals.
Worth to check and compare the rules between Germany and France or other countries of the EU.

[andy97]

Just bribe the officials in France - seems to work for ex Presidents. One year house arrest (probably in a very nice house) seems to be the going rate. And we are all used to that now. Well, not as nice a house perhaps?

[Gerard C]

Before being fired for OT, I just tell you that he won't be framed. Well, not really, he can stay at home. But he has other perspectives in sight…

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Before being fired for OT, I just tell you that he won't be framed. Well, not really, he can stay at home. But he has other perspectives in sight…

Yes, he wants to stand for the Presidency in next year's elections! Oh, and if I can correct you Gerard, I think you meant prospects.

[smokystove]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

My understanding of the french rules is that VAT applies only on the growth margin made if those people are professionals.
Worth to check and compare the rules between Germany and France or other countries of the EU.

Yes, my understanding of the VAT on a purchase it's the same here in Germany which is:

if it is considered to be of historical importance (for example a well known racing car); or at least 30 years old (a classic/veteran/vintage etc); there is no VAT applicable... so from the UK to Germany this hasn't changed.

HOWEVER there is now a 7% customs tax applicable, which wasn't there before, and this 7% is on the value of the vehicle PLUS it's transport fees into Germany.

Also additional smaller fees for admin on both sides.

So I'm too confident about how much longer the authorities will overlook questioning how long a UK car will stay in the EU, given the opportunity for them to collect 7% customs tax the same as they would from any non-EU import.

Still figuring it all out with little help from either UK or German customs information but this is my understanding thus far.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes, he wants to stand for the Presidency in next year's elections! Oh, and if I can correct you Gerard, I think you meant prospects.

It does seem to be all part of French Presidential Elections that as the date looms up the incumbent seems to find a way of stitching up possible opponents in court on some spurious charge. It's happening to Marine Le Pen too. Likewise Francois Fillon last time around. Or DSK when he was seen as a threat to Hollande. It's a nasty business.

[Gerard C]

If you make a quick search for UTA 772 you'll find several names. Then looking for the one who used to be so called leader, search for visit in Paris. Then look for who was supposed to found Sarko election…*And after that dont tell me about corruption in other countries!

Yes smokystove, same understanding. But isn't everything based on the declaration value? May be there will be a discrepancy depending on whether the car has papers or not.
I used to work for Pioneer France back in the day. The boss was a petrol head. A young accountant found that we could have VAT money back on the race cars, like F1's for instance because they were not registered as road cars.

[smokystove]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

But isn't everything based on the declaration value? May be there will be a discrepancy depending on whether the car has papers or not..

Yes, but our understanding is this is determined by the bill of sale (at least in our case).
Which for all the obvious reasons states the legitimate value as there would be huge disadvantages to it being otherwise.. not least of which is being illegal!
And as you mentioned earlier, it's not as if customs agents can't use the internet either.
So as it relates more to this thread I would be concerned that without either a bill of sale or a detailed carnet it may soon be difficult, expensive, or both.

[smokystove]

Originally Posted by smokystove

So I'm not too confident about how much longer the authorities will overlook questioning how long a UK car will stay in the EU

doh...what I meant to say