Another Chevron one

[Dan Rear]

Following on from Oulton, I have a few 'Bolton observations' to note !

First I had a good look at the Redman B42, looking superb in its '78 Rosberg F2 livery. I couldn't see a tub no though. Allen/Chris ? The name 'Mike Hiss' was on the side though if this is any help.

Of the 3 B40s there, Hadfield/Pye, Sidgwick, Burnett, the first was confirmed as -06, the Keke '77 car. I didn't have a pen to hand to take notes, but I think the Burnett one was described as -11 ex-KWS/Ludwig, then Iain Mclaren. The Sidgwick one wasn't numbered IIRC. Or perhaps I'm mixing up the latter 2... So unless it was the missing one above, where is the Opert/Prost-Ron Harper one now, -08 I think ?

I had a nice chat with Alan Bell who owns the original B27, -01, and he thinks the ex-Marsland F2 car, now with a BDG. Alan told me that a subsequent home for this was the Belgian Hillclimb series, do they have hills over there !

On B34s, I spoke to James Gowens who has an Atlantic B34, he says it was only ever an SCCA car and didn't do any major series out there. There is no plate on this, nor on the Amanda Whitaker Atlantic B34 (or not that I could see anyway!).

Finally, for now, the Jo Sebastian and Frank Lyons B29s did have plates. These were respectively, nos 33 and 36. Did the factory make that many B29s ?

I should add that my observations were only quick ones, and shouldn't be taken as conclusive 'proof' of identities. Merely the ramblings of an enthusiastic amateur, with VERY little technical knowledge !!!

[Dan Rear]

Something else I've just recalled. Away from the pits, in the 'Chevron area', there was a B42 with V8 in. I got chatting to the owner, Peter Cox,who was v helpful. His car is the ex Russ Ward one, which we established long ago is one of the ex-Briggs cars.

He's been told it is -17, which fits. He was given some history when purchasing it recently, saying after F2 it was used in American Atlantic, which I told him I thought very doubtful. I said -17 was definitely ex Briggs, tho' I said Dean had it in 79-80, in fact it was Robinson I now see. He was also told it went to India, which could well be right, and he confirms it is the Russ Ward Rover climbing/sprinting car. He added he hopes to get a Hart to put in it at some point, for the sake of authenticity.

I mentioned this site to him, he said he'd pay it a visit !!

[driftwood]

good to hear some news sad to hear that u where penless and no digital camera mentioned either to record the info in the absence of pen
shall we have a whip round?
just need the flat cap
there is also a neat chevron in hillclimbing i think its a b42 and yes i have a foto for those who wish to know more

[Chris Townsend]

Re Dan's Oulton observations
B29s - chassis 33 and 36 they're having a laugh.
Firstly the build record ends at 30 with Binder's late season F2 car [though MN
helpfully calls it 31 on debut]. Secondly, Derek Bennett, with only rare exceptions,
didn't build chassis with multiples of 11 for reasons of bad luck. Hence no Chevron
B11, 22, 33, 44 for same reason.

27-1 was indeed Marsland's F2 car. Indeed they have hills in Belgium, think of that lovely swoop into Eau Rouge and out the other side. Could have a hillclimb every
weekend in the Ardennes.

[Dan Rear]

dw, yes I'd like to see a pic of the neat climbing B42, if you can post it. Do you know anymore re 'Sir Brian's' B42?

[driftwood]

will look for foto
re BR car i didnt realise he was racing 1 till i saw the AS report/ foto
in usa he races some b19/16 cars

[driftwood]

damn just looked i dont seem to have it i was sure i took a foto cos i talked to the guy
in motorsport 2 -3 months ago i think there is a foto of the car
chevron feature edition will seek out my programme form last yrs event/ask a pal who is CoC there

[Dan Rear]

Plenty of info re the Gold Cup in this months MS, and pics of Redman. However there's no detail on the B42. Given that, we think, only 17 were made, surely we can track down which car its likely to have been ?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Should be a bit nearer to resolving the riddle associated with Steve Jewell's two B48s after the weekend. Steve is entered at Prescott this Sunday and my spies will be on hand to root out chassis numbers!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Something else I've just recalled. Away from the pits, in the 'Chevron area', there was a B42 with V8 in. I got chatting to the owner, Peter Cox,who was v helpful. His car is the ex Russ Ward one, which we established long ago is one of the ex-Briggs cars.

He's been told it is -17, which fits. He was given some history when purchasing it recently, saying after F2 it was used in American Atlantic, which I told him I thought very doubtful. I said -17 was definitely ex Briggs, tho' I said Dean had it in 79-80, in fact it was Robinson I now see. He was also told it went to India, which could well be right, and he confirms it is the Russ Ward Rover climbing/sprinting car. He added he hopes to get a Hart to put in it at some point, for the sake of authenticity.

I mentioned this site to him, he said he'd pay it a visit !!

Peter was in his new car at Aintree at the start of the month. It was the very first time he had driven it! He plans to do the Historic Racing Car classes on the Midland Hills with an occasional sprint. The acquisition of a suitable Hart motor may be more long term and also quiet difficult.

[driftwood]

steve jewel sold 1 of his b48 f2 hart cars last yeer to belgian guy with the 1600 b48 car
the b42 robinson car was this his esprit gt car?

[Jeremy Jackson]

The Esprit was based on his B48 - the chassis plate was still in plain view on the monocoque under the bodywork when I saw it.

[driftwood]

thought u might say that!!
i do recall a day at donington when he had f2 car and gt car to race side by side

[Séamas M.]

At Kirkistown last Saturday Tommy Reid brought the ex-Daly BT42 (which he remembered he had somewhere ).



Tommy arrived too late to take part in the Libre qualifying so he was allowed to run in a sports car session to try the car out. He suffered with a chronic misfire which hadn't been cleared by the start of the libre race. Having started at the back of the grid (about 12th) he was soon harassing Darwin Smith's March 721 for third place and getting quicker as the misfire had cured itself. Unfortunately he then had a problem with the rear wing mount and retired.

I showed the attached pictures to Paul Owens this week. He has fond memories of engineering this car for Derek Daly, but isn't impressed with what looks like a non-original rear wing! Chassis number is correct (BT42-78-08) but Paul says the plate isn't original either!

[allenbrown]

Darwin Smith's March 721?!

[Séamas M.]

Oops! Typo!

Of course it's a 722, non standard though!

[allenbrown]

Phew!

[Redracer77]

There is a nice picture of my Uncles ex Daly B38 on Paul Sands website from the Gold Cup - http://www.paulsands.org/oulton08270.../Img_6701.html

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

separate matter, I remember an excellent Phoenix Park Atlantic race in I think '79. Had all the usual Irish guys, some of the British Hitachi cars, plus a few interlopers like Rothengatter, Eddie J, and possibly Derek Daly. Do you have any details ??

Dan, were you there that year ? I remember going to the race as a 10 year old kid. It was the 50th anniversary of the Phoenix Park races and there was a special souvenir programme [A4 size as opposed to the normal B5 size]. I kept it for a long time afterwards, but its gone awol now. From what I remember, though the grid was excellent, the race didn't live up to it. David Kennedy annihilated the field in the Group Waterworks car... it was kinda like a triumphant homecoming for him having raced overseas that year. I do remember the crowd there to be enormous. It was the heyday of The Park with possibly 50,000 spectators.

All of the above is from a very sketchy childhood memory, so I apologize in advance if I'm incorrect.

[Dan Rear]

Davy, no I wasn't there, just a v keen Atlantic fan then, and still ! 50,000 spectators thats fantastic, do they still have that meeting, and if so how many does it get nowadays? Kennedy won in the Theodore RT1, as you say he was racing in the UK that year, and having a good time in the Aurora series. With hindsight, it was probably the highspot of his career that summer I reckon.

[davyboy]

I'm a massive Atlantic fan too. I regret that I was too young to properly appreciate the series in Ireland back in the 1970s. Today the races are a shadow of what they used to be and the attendance is much lower.

Of all the circuits Formula Atlantic ever raced, Dublin's Phoenix Park MUST be the most evocative. There's nothing quite like the place. Its located more or less in the city centre of Dublin. We used to watch between Castleknock and Ratra. When the flag dropped at the beginning of the Atlantic race, the sound of a grid of those machines howling through the trees on the sprint to Mountjoy was unbelievable. I've never forgotten it to this day. People there at the time will know what I mean.

I have an idea here. If the Goodwood Revival Meeting is the spiritual home of 1950s/1960s racing, how about turning the annual Phoenix Park races into an equivalent, but for 1970s machines ? Formula Atlantic, Formula 5000, Modsports, Modified Saloons [anyone remember Vivian Candy's Captain America Imp that caused his fellow competitors to boycott the race :-)], 3-litre Capris etc...., and hordes of FF1600. Common' some 40-something with more money than me in Ireland's gotta be able to get that going !

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Séamas M.

At Kirkistown last Saturday Tommy Reid brought the ex-Daly BT42 (which he remembered he had somewhere ).

Séamas, I showed these pictures to Derek himself yesterday and he was really happy to see the car still going. He said it brought back some very fond memories.

By the way, what else has Tommy Reid got hiding in his den in Tandragee. I was amazed to find out that he had one of Derek's B42s.

[driftwood]

well davyboy the first person to tap up is your man eddie jordan he is a local lad after all !!
then u could bushwack Martin from mondello im sure he would be willing to assist so long as it didnt clash with the "Park" events he holds
A logical soloution would be to have Phoenix 1 weekend and mondello the following w/end that way the "foreigners" can justify the trip and recover from the 1st w/ends hangover & see that fair city
You have enough local heros to drag out from the past to put together a race of the Irish and im sure u could persuade derek daly david kennedy martin donelly kenny acheson eddie jordan to make an appearance in some cars

If people like tommy reid have cars in hiding they will need 12 months notice to get them rebuilt ready to race

what type of races would u like to see?
period atlantic race?
classic fford maybe a saloon car race with cars from the past and is it likely the special saloons in ireland still exisit like Candys Imp Mattie McNamaras escort
then i think u will need to dig deper and get afew historic cars over form the mainland to bolster the festival feel and look back at the Parks races of the past to entice those cars that entered in the 50-601s to come and compete
U also have a few bigger engines single seaters over there to have a libre /BOSS type race & EJ still has 1 or 2 F1 cars to put on display or demo drive

Im sure a grant from the local government could be obtained as well to promote things perhaps the irish tourist board should be involved
OK i have done the easy part the rest is upto u lads over there and mines pint o Guinness followed by shot o Paddy`s

[davyboy]

You're right Drift... there's a lot more money in Ireland now than there's ever been and a ton of very wealthy motorsport people. In terms of organizing it... Eddie Jordan is a Dubliner, a 'Park Man' and most of all incredibly well connected. I think he would be the best placed person to make something like this happen - the Irish Lord March ! Anyone got an e-mail address for him that he reads mail on ? I can send him a mail with a reminder of an incident in the mid-1970s when I met him that he'll remember for sure.

In terms of classes, it would be nice to have a good mix of big bangers from the 1970s - but emphasizing classes that only existed back then i.e. F-5000, F-Atlantic, mod-saloons [superloons], mod-sports, clubmans... as well as FF1600. Everything would be period 1970s... nothing before or after. It would work very neatly with those classes as they were never made up of cars from the same year. For example in 1978, people were driving new cars as well as 2, 3, 4, 5 year old cars [and getting well placed in them too].

In terms of cars, for sure, most will have to come from the mainland and further afield as you say. Quite a lot of those cars have ended up in the US and Oz/NZ too.

The problems... well, the Government are unlikely to support this.
o Part of the problem with the Park is they made it some sort of conservation zone... the period street lamps can't be taken down and probably the deer can't be coralled. o Safety's a big issue too. Its amazing there were such a small number of fatalities there over the years what with trees, kerbs and a very, very narrow road in places. I remember Atlantics passing large deciduous trees with just a few hay bales to protect them, at 140mph+. Though we all love our Atlantics, none of us would wanna have a big accident in one !

But wouldn't it be wonderful if it did happen ?

[driftwood]

Yes saftey issues and noise are problems these days the 1st event will need to be along the lines of goodwood hillclimb event as demo runs/ "races" to show off the cars
make it a festival of speed perhaps some classic bke racers can come down too
as always u have to start small but be well organised and with cash to spend to oil the wheels if it works well the 1st year u can go for a little more the follwoing year
say year 1 is a 1 day event on sunday?
year 2 possible starts on saturday
as with everything in ireland all events will finish on monday - sometime!

the main thing is to get the right people involved even if yr the little man u need to wheel in the big names to use as front men/ambassadors to speak to the likes of Bertie o Hearn etc
getting cars should not be a drama ( maybe worth collating a list of cars u would want to see running and if they are still in ireland ) but the date needs to be mid season and doesnt clash with goodwood GP or another historic type festival race event and sadly yr stuffed till the RAC confirm calender in dec or Jan