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28 May 2007, 18:53 (Ref:1923131) | #151 | ||
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You know Joe... he could easily have won if...
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28 May 2007, 18:54 (Ref:1923133) | #152 | ||
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Off topic again, but you fail to mention that James Thompson wasn't competing a full season anyway..... |
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28 May 2007, 18:58 (Ref:1923140) | #153 | ||
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So are you saying not every team order situation is the same?
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28 May 2007, 19:01 (Ref:1923143) | #154 | |||
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Problem is rules are rules. Don't think Ron ever said there where team orders in terms of who was in front of who, just to slow down mind! Um... |
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28 May 2007, 19:05 (Ref:1923146) | #155 | ||
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I think Lewis' car was set up badly for the race, he had way too much oversteer at any and every corner, he just seemed to be fighting the car the whole time, which isn't quick.
I don't think Lewis was faster than Alonso on Sunday, for whatever reason. I do think its bad in a sense that McLaren used team orders, I like to see drivers racing. You can be sure that if it were Williams, that they would have been allowed to race each other. Last edited by Sodemo; 28 May 2007 at 19:09. |
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28 May 2007, 19:26 (Ref:1923166) | #156 | |||
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Isn't that why JPM left Williams because of having to hold station with Ralf ? |
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28 May 2007, 20:05 (Ref:1923200) | #157 | ||
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28 May 2007, 20:14 (Ref:1923211) | #158 | |||
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Frankly, I can barely believe your doing anything other than just winding people up at this point. A discussion about team orders is one thing, but there is a limit. Did the place get invaded by trolls when Hamilton started being successful? |
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28 May 2007, 20:17 (Ref:1923214) | #159 | |||
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#teamyorkshire |
28 May 2007, 20:22 (Ref:1923218) | #160 | |
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I'd have thought it'd have been obvious, Thompson (minus a miracle) didn't stand a cat in hell's chance of winning the championship, whereas most F1 drivers are there for the full season anyway.
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28 May 2007, 20:26 (Ref:1923224) | #161 | ||
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But if someone is complaining about team orders in F1, yet watch the BTCC, which is also uses team orders, then why try and say that one is better than the other? The Thompson one was an example, but the argument could be that why should he give up his hard fought (dominant at one point too) win for someone else, whether he is competing in just one race that year or 20? After all, he was allowed to win twice at Brands.
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28 May 2007, 20:32 (Ref:1923228) | #162 | |
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Well I do see your point, and thankfully it only happens in the BTCC very rarely, which was my point as the team set up last year led to extraordinary circumstances, where letting a part time driver take the most points is a waste.
Ferrari certainly have a lot to answer for, although it did happen before then.. |
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28 May 2007, 20:41 (Ref:1923232) | #163 | ||
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Stop it! Oh please, Stop it!! I am laughing too hard!!!
Now, JohnSSC is thinking back a few years when the evil Hun (alias TGF, aka Michael Schumacher) was winning left, right and center. Not having St Lewis to bang on about, many Forum regulars were banging on about how poor Rubens wasn't getting a chance and that the World-Wide Sinister Ferrari Conspiracy (aided and abetted by the FIA) was responsible for keeping Rubens down due to team orders and those mysterious clauses in Michael's contract. Word on the street here was that REAL F1 teams like McLaren let their drivers race in a very sporting, pip-pip, cheerio stiff-upper lip proper British sort of way...if only Michael and RB drove for Mc, then Michael would get his comeuppance. Fast forward to 2007. Kimi seemingly cannot generate enough interest in showing Massa who is who so now the world is focused on how St. Lewis is being robbed what with the Vicious Ron Dennis instituting Team Orders. Of course this proves that RD is Evil and not at all sporting in a pip-pip cheerio stiff upper lip, British sort of way like the other teams!! Oh gosh, this is hilarious! Almost as good as Deeks6's summary! Here is how it looked to me: Alonso (aka: TSF) taught St. Lewis that you can go around Monaco rather quickly without flinging the car about like a pinball on acid. The boy is talented and imho, lucky that his assorted "brushes" of the Armco didn't land him a nice afternoon's walk back to McLaren HQ. When St. Lewis learns how to drive the car to maximize what it can do for him instead of flinging it about, then he will be a force. In the meantime, Alonso (TSF) is going to be giving more, rather than fewer driving lessons to the lad like he gave to him Sunday. Last edited by JohnSSC; 28 May 2007 at 20:44. |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
28 May 2007, 20:42 (Ref:1923234) | #164 | |
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It is not rare in the BTCC at all. It's not rare in any motorsport.
Some do apply it more subtly than others. |
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28 May 2007, 20:54 (Ref:1923242) | #165 | ||
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[offtopic]
TSF - that shall be thy name !!! Thanks John [/offtopic] |
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28 May 2007, 21:08 (Ref:1923252) | #166 | ||
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Does nobody remember the Senna versus Mansel battle at Monaco?
Hamilton would just not been able to pass Alonso...and it all would have ended in tears if he had tried. |
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28 May 2007, 21:12 (Ref:1923258) | #167 | ||
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not sure if its been mentioned yet, but what are peoples thoughts/recollections of OZ 1998? where the McLaren's were the class of the field and they waved Hakkinen past Coulthard in the final stages giving MH his first win on the way to WDC that year.
similar or dissimalr to this weekend? iirc, DC has since said that it was team orders. if true Ron's memory must be fading if he expects people to believe that his team has never done anything like this before. |
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28 May 2007, 21:17 (Ref:1923261) | #168 | |
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Err, Ron referred to that very incident in a link earlier in this thread...
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28 May 2007, 21:34 (Ref:1923276) | #169 | ||
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found it, here. http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=109
was not aware of that explanation. too bad he cant use it again |
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28 May 2007, 21:43 (Ref:1923281) | #170 | ||
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Commentary on that incident from the time: http://atlasf1.autosport.com/98/aus/gebbie.html
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28 May 2007, 21:47 (Ref:1923284) | #171 | |||
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But if you are referring to France 2003 then if I recall, it was an inter team battle which allowed Ralf to get ahead of Juan at the pitstops, by pitting Ralf early (or was it later - I forget). Montoya was miffed as he was leading the championship at that point and felt that he should have been in front. Logically in this situation if you were to apply the McLaren or Ferrari approach, Montoya would have been allowed to win. |
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28 May 2007, 21:54 (Ref:1923286) | #172 | ||
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For the record. It was a change in the lap that Ralf stopped which annoyed Montoya, basically it allowed Ralf to respond to Montoya's stop and negate any advantage Montoya had. Montoya was not leading the championship. AFAIK he never has lead the championship. The closest he came to was after Hungary later in the year.
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28 May 2007, 22:18 (Ref:1923293) | #173 | |||
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28 May 2007, 22:45 (Ref:1923311) | #174 | ||
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
28 May 2007, 23:45 (Ref:1923330) | #175 | ||||
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