[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[KlBD]

To offer a different perspective on the BoP issue, I think the expectation some fans have that a good BoP should give everyone an equal (and this is the sticking point here, the word "equal") chance at victory is incorrect, and not just because the committees setting the BoP will sometimes get it wrong.

I admit, the naming of this concept as balance of "performance" gives this impression that all teams and cars should have an equal chance at victory. But from what we have heard and seen from the ACO in recent years, balancing pure performance (and ergo results) is not actually the intent. As others have said, recently they've been trying to balance the potential of the different cars. Balancing this should not mean every car has an equal chance at victory. Ultimately, this means each car should have a chance at victory, and how large that chance is will be up to them.

Not every team and car will reach this potential. Based on the pure pace of the Cadillac and Ferrari during qualifying (IMSA qualifying in the case of the Cadillac), I believe the speed in those cars is similar to what the GR010 is capable of. But in terms of each car's maximum potential, no one got as close to their theoretical ceiling this weekend than the Toyota. Perhaps your car is fast, but lacks reliability (generally not an issue for the top competitors this race). Maybe it's fast over a single lap, but can't maintain that due to setup or driver skill, being less able to activate and preserve the tires, etc. In my personal opinion, many of those criticizing the BoP of this race are likely underestimating the effect of the tires in terms of overall car performance. Toyota are the most familiar with their car, so during the test and practice sessions they had the most mileage and the most time to understand how to unlock the pace of these new tires.

And let's also keep in mind, despite the big stakes of a win in the 100th anniversary Le Mans this year, complaining about BoP from the manufacturers themselves has not yet started! It's kind of unusual to see fans be the first to cry wolf on this topic if the ones shelling out the funding aren't even there yet.

[PhilipR]

I have an impression that there is an expectation that in a BOP class cars will run together for all race and will be close finishes

This does not take into account individual aspects of the cars, race preparedness of teams, environmental factors and individual errors

We need more races to see if the BOP is good or not - 1 is just an outlier that can be impacted by multiple factors

Even more - in a BOP class a bad car will always be a bad car (whisper it Peugeot)

[RL17]

It’s not just Toyota car (which they improved upon greatly since last year) but team and especially drivers.

Ferrari and Porsche have great faith in their former GTE drivers (some of whom were stock car racing each other last year).

Experience of Toyota drivers second to none (and competitive against other Toyota in recent years but not too much). Ability to roll out consistent laps after laps at Le Mans at night whilst overtaking a few cars or more each and every lap (once race gets going). Also don’t get penalties for trying to gain 0.5s advantage when on slow zones or pits etc.

So Ferrari and Porsche and Caddy drivers can also catch up a bit hopefully soon.

[veeten]

Guys, take a look at the overall speeds. Toyotas are averaging about 305, whereas everyone else is averaging 302.
I sense a BOP change coming....

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by veeten

Guys, take a look at the overall speeds. Toyotas are averaging about 305, whereas everyone else is averaging 302.
I sense a BOP change coming....

based on that? on fp2? I do not think so, I expect everyone to be well above 305 by the end of quali or average 305 by then.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by veeten

Guys, take a look at the overall speeds. Toyotas are averaging about 305, whereas everyone else is averaging 302.
I sense a BOP change coming....

No no no!


There won't a BoP change.


Toyota ahead is the dream scenario and that must be kept in place.

[Adam43]

Yes, although…

If Porsche was at front it would be dream scenario for them to win in centenary year as they’ve been the most successful.
If Ferrari was at front it would be dream scenario for them to win for headlines and prestige.
If Peugeot was at front it would be dream scenario for them to win as, well you know, ACO French.

We can come up with the dream scenario motive for any of them to demonstrate how they are fixing it.

In exactly the same way that any change in relative pace can only be explained by sand. Or even how they get quicker through the weekend, peaking in Q, for the same reason.

Sometimes it’s just how it is, rather than some great conspiracy.

[TCT]

That won't take 4 hours

If the Toyota's don't break down, everybody will race for the 3rd podium place at Le Mans.

Toyota will take a lap on the field as soon as possible and then just control the race from there on.

[TCT]

Not even 4 hours done and both Toyota's have lapped the entire field.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by TCT

Not even 4 hours done and both Toyota's have lapped the entire field.

Cause they made a proper bet on strategy and the only other two cars that did the same either crashed or broke?


You wont be happy till they have 100kilos of ballast and a 25hp power cut ennit?

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by TCT

Not even 4 hours done and both Toyota's have lapped the entire field.

but not nessesarily based on pace alone, good strategy and clean race for them (None of the other teams has had a clean race) is the main reason.

[TCT]

Yawn!



They don't need ballast or other things, the others just need a chance.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by Toyotats03OUS

None of the other teams has had a clean race) is the main reason.

What errors did the #5 do?
Or the #2?
Or the #93?


You could say the Ferrari had the wrong strategy by not starting on slicks but #2 and #5 did, just like the Toyota's.
So what did they do wrong?

[Toyotats03OUS]

I think everyone is pretty close on race pace, and I will dare to say the ferari might have a little bit more top speed then the toyotas. Lets give toyota proper credit, they are just a solid team, a formidable team!

[TCT]

And a favorable BoP, let's not forget that

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by TCT

What errors did the #5 do?
Or the #2?
Or the #93?


You could say the Ferrari had the wrong strategy by not starting on slicks but #2 and #5 did, just like the Toyota's.
So what did they do wrong?

Peugeot as of now is not a competitive team, and the number 2 started with rain tyres.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by Toyotats03OUS

I think everyone is pretty close on race pace, and I will dare to say the ferari might have a little bit more top speed then the toyotas. Lets give toyota proper credit, they are just a solid team, a formidable team!

Ah but yes, the Ferrari is an ACO-type Hypercar too and not an LMDh.

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by TCT

And a favorable BoP, let's not forget that

How so?

explain.

[Simmi]

Still think LMDh's need a little boost (nothing crazy) but from a regs standpoint I'm not sure it can happen now until after Le Mans.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Still think LMDh's need a little boost (nothing crazy) but from a regs standpoint I'm not sure it can happen now until after Le Mans.

Of course not!


Do you really think they want an IMSA-style Hypercar win it?
No!


This edition NEEDS to be won by an ACO-type Hypercar.



AFTER Le Mans when it was clear the LMDh stood no chance, there will be an adjustment. But by then Toyota will have won everything.
And I think that was always the plan and the preferred scenario.

[KlBD]

BoP doesn't account for the driver performance, either. I haven't had looked in detail at the laptimes from Spa but at the previous races, the Toyota drivers were on average better than other car crews at producing laptimes close to their car's best.

[TCT]

Originally Posted by J Jay

It does seem odd that, with so many safety measures, cold tyres has been so rigidly enforced. I suspect if a couple of high-profile cold-tyre crashes happen at Le Mans that regulation may be swiftly amended.

Just like the BoP adjustment (or not) they won't do anything until after Le Mans.


And then it will be like "oops, wrong decision"




That is exactly the same with BoP and tire warmers.

[TCT]

The Ferrari passed the Porsche as if it is standing still.
LMDh cars don't stand a chance against the LMH cars.




Or maybe Fred Mako just is a poor driver and Calado a good one, is that what you are suggesting?

[J Jay]

That was a good race. Bodes well for Le Mans...

Originally Posted by TCT

The Ferrari passed the Porsche as if it is standing still.
LMDh cars don't stand a chance against the LMH cars.

Or maybe Fred Mako just is a poor driver and Calado a good one, is that what you are suggesting?

There is a small LMH pace advantage (and I would consider Calado to be ever-so-slightly better than Makowiecki), but the 499P is the real deal. When it is hooked up, it is just as fast as the GR010.

Now it's up to Ferrari's pit crew to match the engineers and drivers.

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by TCT

The Ferrari passed the Porsche as if it is standing still.
LMDh cars don't stand a chance against the LMH cars.




Or maybe Fred Mako just is a poor driver and Calado a good one, is that what you are suggesting?

The ferraries are scary fast!

but I think toyota might have a little bit more in the tank in terms of speed.

the Ferrari set their fastest lap 2:03:868 at 321.54 spd!!!
the toyotas set the fastest lap of the race 2:02:327 at 311.38