Sports Sedans

[B24]

I agree also. Great idea and what a turnout it a nationals event would be!

[auzziemonza]

Just catching up.

After reading all of the recent posts', my last contribution is this-

THE ASSA needs to talk to the AASA!!!!!!!

ASSA, CAMS will do nothing for you. I know the ASSA run a meeting for CAMS at Sandown and that apparently brings in much needed funds for the club but not the survival of the category.

[Robert Ryan]

THE ASSA needs to talk to the AASA!!!!!!!

Unfortunately a case of the blind leading the blind.

[RichC]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Despite the speed of the cars it may well be more appropriate if the catergory sought to rebuild it's respective state based series and co-ordinate a well attended once or twice a year collective get together.Rebuild nimbers of ALL types of existing cars and generate some confidence and excitement back into the class.Limping on as it is will sign the class's own death warrant.

I have competed at State and National level over many years. I have been involved in what SS should and shouldn't do. I even succeeded in getting a National meeting yearly to discuss reg's and future direction.

At no stage has a more simple approach been suggested. At the stage SS is in, it makes so much sense, go back to the basics and build up from there. And it seems so simple.

The problem is that too many members of SS want to do their own thing and there is not a governing body strong enough to control the attitudes and individual directions of most. I just wish there was a way.

It needs a person of strength - T Cochrane has it, he believes in revolution not evolution. "My way or highway" ruthless ruling.
Probably SS's biggest strength or attraction is its weakest point too.

Individuality is unique to SS and so each "builder", believes he has the right to race with his "rules". "If I don't want to enter, then I won't, no one is gonna tell me what to do...!!" That is generic attitude from most SS owners.

There is no spirit for the category. Oh, they'll tell you they care, but most couldn't care less. There is more brilliant sports sedan's gathering dust in garages around Australia than any other category.

About 5 years ago we did a ring around in an attempt to attract entries for a National Championship round at Sandown with the super taxis. We phoned 40!!! Yes 40 cars were eligible to enter, that was over and above the 14 that had entered. Remember grid capacity at Sandown is 32. If all had entered, the 115% rule would have applied and 22 cars would not have qualified, had to pack up and go home!!! Fancy that?

I will go on and on about my favourite category where frailty is worshipped, where individuality and engineering nous is required. Where brute accelaration combined with high terminal speed, and noise is worshipped, where low, fat, wide, dark and mean looking is regarded as beauty. Where rotories can sound fabulous and beat V8's, where race craft is required and not just money buys speed. Where more than a bottomless wallet is required, where we watch those with big bucks - "girls that buy speed with Porsche", where excitment is paramount, where mateship sees competitors on the track assist their fellow competitor off the track. There is skill required to design, build, compete and win. Few other categories can boast that.

Like EL, (whom I know well), I am all out of breath. On EL, no one has done more in recent times to rebuild SS, to find ambivilence and apathy as usual, thwart his efforts. I sympathise with him and congratulate him for giving his best. Sometimes life is stranger than fiction....

[RichC]

Originally Posted by auzziemonza

THE ASSA needs to talk to the AASA!!!!!!!

ASSA, CAMS will do nothing for you. I know the ASSA run a meeting for CAMS at Sandown and that apparently brings in much needed funds for the club but not the survival of the category.

First auzziemonza, the ASSA does talk amongst itself. But it needs more than that as my last message indicates.

Your 2nd point needs clarifying. The trouble with forums and "talk" - is just that -"talk", not facts. In one sense you are correct. But what you failed to say was that with profit comes risk; can come LOSS. The other point is that "funds" - read profit, those left overs are used to maintain the ASSA in Victoria. There is nothing stopping other ASSA state clubs doing the same or for that matter, ANY category doing the same - raising money. Some have chook raffles!

I'm sure you did not mean to indicate anything untoward but your "words" do give an inference that money is used for other matters rather than toward SS. On that point you are wrong.

[Robert Ryan]

The problem is that too many members of SS want to do their own thing and there is not a governing body strong enough to control the attitudes and individual directions of most. I just wish there was a way.

I get the very strong impression, you need something like a V8Supercar organisation to weld the various strong personalities of SS racing together.
If you get them intially on the track, in sufficient numbers, then maybe cars get updated, then an entrepreneur may see a opportunity to pour money into the class and make it more professional.

[Robert Ryan]

Also the current set up is a bit unfair on people like Phil Crompton, who has to try and organise the series AND race as well. OK, then the baton is passed to another driver to do it, not really good enough.

[Silver 3]

Interesting posts -- my point about rebuiding the base that I made earlier is consistent with many views expressed here. A catergory cannot rely on competitors that are in fact occasional . Catergories cannot be dictated too by people that have numbers but not the dollar commitment to go racing now.They hate to even think it but most SS competitors barely have a budget to do 6 State rounds let alone follow a National series.For the few(and it is proven that it is a few) the relevence of the class would be better served by a rethink of it's position in the sport and where are the competitors going to come from. For example-- the Victorian state series has gone from booming in numbers to struggling.If you cannot get numbers at that point any attempt at National is doomed to failure-- which is exactly what we are seeing.On the other hand-- eg throw the national cars into the Vic State Series and it would create a great field that would generate the excitement and interest back into it. Same comment relevent to NSW. The problem is that some cars would be unable to run. Absurd mish mash in direction needs to be fixed.Run the U2L cars as a class within a class in Victoria and you would be out of grid places.To me somewhere in there are the answers and combine that with speccing the rotaries up to a competative level to give a cheaper ,different, variety of choices can see the catergory start to reclaim relevence.I also have to point out-- I am not an SS competitor or owner( I do own and race a number of cars(fast) in another catergory) but have contemplated this class often and do watch many State rounds( in 3 states) and many of the National rounds. I know many people in S/S and have always enjoyed these cars for the spectacle they create. I also understand the organisational problems of trying to achieve change thru the democratic process and as an outsider the SS association is way to conservative for it's own good.It needs more entreprunerial thinking to put the seemingly backward steps in place to make it be in a position to go forward.

[Robert Ryan]

To me somewhere in there are the answers and combine that with speccing the rotaries up to a competative level to give a cheaper ,different, variety of choices can see the catergory start to reclaim relevence

Also the Turboed 6's as well. Both lag as alternatives to the realtively cheap and effective Chevs. Circuit Racing needs a true "Thunder and Lightning class", as Falcon EL said like the Top Doorslammers in Drag Racing.

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Also the Turboed 6's as well. Both lag as alternatives to the realtively cheap and effective Chevs. Circuit Racing needs a true "Thunder and Lightning class", as Falcon EL said like the Top Doorslammers in Drag Racing.

I cant believe what I'm reading!!!

Sports Sedans and Drag Racing in the same post!

Dong Slammers - how many are there? The most overatted, over publicised least preforming puffed chest category in all of motoring (sports). When have more than 4 turned up at anything more than the Nationals and to compete for less than a minute (competitive). The only reason Knuckle Draggers Racing exists is because there is still a large percentage of the population that only have an attention span of less than 15 seconds!!!

Get a life! What do you want? A Studebaker Hawk SS (like a Dong Slammer) in a braking duel at the bottom of the Oran Park front straight with an EL Falcon Sports Sedan with a Hyundai V6 powered Ford Anglia - (left hand drive of course) nipping at their heals, about to lap Ronnie Wronglap's brand new Monaro SS (HT - with turbo'd Mitsubishi V6)? Instantly recognisable to the TV audience!

I can see the Manufacturers (and Ch 10) falling over backwards to be a part of that!

[RichC]

Oh dear, we have returned to knocking. If you read back through the comments, it is all positve and has a sense of wanting to achieve. And then along comes Camaroz.... Whoa! Forget drags here and comment on SS. I know nothing of drags other than the population that follows has large amounts of money as disposable income. And as a marketing person, one cannot cast them aside. The sport of drags? Well that's another matter.

Importantly, all the comments following my earlier mention have been in common agreement about management of the category. I am in total agreement on that. SS does need to survive and prosper, but only if it WANTS to.

[Silver 3]

For what it's worth -- many ,many people are interested enough to pay money to watch drags-- how many are paying to watch S/S. Near enough to none is the answer.To correct that situation S/S needs to recognize that reality-- they have zero relevence and credibility outside of the interested involved.S/S is one of the few categories that is not sterile,everybody has to be the same rubbish served up in so many excuses for motorsport either served up or forced on us.It allows all the engineering freedoms to create interest but internal prejudices is retarding the potential growth and all inthe nonsense of controlling costs. The fact is to go very quick costs--- no matter which route is followed.(or what category either) So get over it and collectively do something. The "do nothing" brigade will not be happy untill the demise of the class is a reality.

[Robert Ryan]

can see the Manufacturers (and Ch 10) falling over backwards to be a part of that!

Camaroz, they are falling over themselves watching a 1970's era Alfa Romeo, lead the catergory. Read the rest of the thread. I doubt your comments will have any effect on the rather cashed up Drag Racing fraternity.

[Robert Ryan]

Dong Slammers - how many are there? The most overatted, over publicised least preforming puffed chest category in all of motoring (sports).

After watching them TOTALLY DISAGREE They are amazing.

[RichC]

Drag Racing is an acquired taste. If you like Butterfly Wings on Aspic, you are hardly likely to eat McDonald's. Drags are McDonald's and that happens to appeal to a lot of us.

[toranaracer]

Silver3,
Once again ill-informed and not aware of what is going on behind the scenes with regards to the future of the Sports Sedan category.
As you would see in the current 2006 CAMS Manual, the current regulations for Sports Sedans is under review with hopefully some exciting and realistic changes being recommended for 2007.
You seem to have an uncanny knack of knocking everyone without ever having the nouse to stand up and follow up with an offer to help.
Take a look at the split that is currently happening with your beloved category before you decide to attack ours.
I will be sure to include you in our invite for this years National Conference so you can share your intimate knowledge of category management with us.
Entry numbers here in Victoria are up on where we were last year, with a number of new vehicles coming on stream later in the year, and the current cars being purchased to be raced in our CAMS Victorian State Series. We seem to be getting more and more U2L vehicles coming to race with this series, as they have always been welcomed, unlike what they have been told by some.
Many people for many years have tried all different types of approach for the National Championship, which have unfortunately not been the success that they would have liked. If the magical answer was so apparent according to everyone, please, please forward us a proposal.
I will now put on my flame-proof suit so you can attack me
Flame On!
Regards,
toranaracer.

[Silver 3]

[QUOTE=toranaracer]Silver3,
Once again ill-informed and not aware of what is going on behind the scenes with regards to the future of the Sports Sedan category.
As you would see in the current 2006 CAMS Manual, the current regulations for Sports Sedans is under review with hopefully some exciting and realistic changes being recommended for 2007.
You seem to have an uncanny knack of knocking everyone without ever having the nouse to stand up and follow up with an offer to help.

Torana- it is nice of you to put it that way-I don't think. Your response addresses's the State issues which were NOT where my comments were directed. 10 or 12 cars showng up for National series was the point.FYI I have made the same "criticism" of others with inadequate numbers. You seem intent on only seeing the negative in anything that is suggested about anything. You seem to be reading things into my comments that are not there.Re State issues and S/S -there was nothing negative in that-- I have high opinion of S/S and made the observation that numbers were soft compared to where they had been.I also made it clear that I was making these comments as an outsider from S/S ranks so your catergory and were intended to be constructive.Interestingly enough some people thought they were.
Now to answer for you (most will not have a clue what you were actually having a go at me about) . It is about time you , and I mean you personally actually sat and thought about what you are saying instead if shooting off your mouth.I have actually been doing something about the'problem" and over 6 weeks (not 3 years) came up with a potential solution.You and your high horse have got nowhere and continue to get nowhere in 3 years!As long as you leave your brains in your back pocket and resist thinking and refuse to look at the actual 'facts' you will continue to go up and down on the spot.You have become imbued with a one directional thinking that is past it's used by date -- even if not apparent to you yet, it will over the next few years.The idea may be foreign to you but management is about having a future plan, and being proactive in achieving it and to use the words of someone we both know , there is no place for that sort of 'neandorthal' thinking.f you really want me to stand in front of your group to spell that out I would be happy to.Trouble is-- most of your group already know that-- it just seems that you in Victoria have whipped yourselves up into a lather over history you cant change. Why bother continueing to fly in the face of reality -- get over it and find the best solution for the future, to do that you need to look at ALL the alternatives.
It would have been nice for you to call me( you do have the number) to make your glad bag of criticism but your ability to walk away in the middle of the discussion would only leave you with the option of hanging up when you here something you don't agree with instead of walking off in the middle of a discussion. One last point-- have a look at who you are siding with-- that ought to make you think.

[toranaracer]

You missed the following points;
1 - The current regulations are under review to entice racers back to Sports Sedans by making quick cars affordable to construct. We hope to have this finalised later this year for introduction in 2007.
2 - Entry numbers State level have held stable, however National level is suffering. The status of the State Championships in all states now have a higher level of professionalism than say 10 years ago.
3 - Trying to make a successful National Championship is one that no one seems to have the magic answer for. I do not have the answers and admit that having tried for years assisting others and feel I failed.
The National Sports Sedan Committe awaits your proposal for 2007.
We are welcome to any input (within reason) to make it happen.
Yes I probably fired a few low shots, however I am passionate about our Sports Sedan category and this is why I am on committes to try and keep this category alive. I am, at the end of the day, only one voice.
Feel free to contact me for a run down on what we are currently working towards, and feel free to attend our National Conference in the coming months for which I will send you an invite when the date and venue is finalised.
Climbing back into my flame-proof suit

[Silver 3]

ToranaR- my comments(the original ones) were made in a constructive sense and certainly intent. I enjoy S/S racing and appreciate the catergoties difficulties more than most.I did start of defending the class and it was in that context that comments were made about class.I also need to point out-- I was making no technical comment at all other than on engine issue- and that was in response to another post.
I would be happy to address your National gathering on the future of our sport and your catergories place in it-- change is only going to happen when the majority want it to,or more accurately the majority are prepared to stand up and be counted.Most people want change but have no idea how that can be achieved.
I have to comment on your view of failure in relationship to National series.I take the view that well intentioned people do not fail when they give up their time to contribute-- all motorsport enthusiasts are winners as a result of the people that give up their time to help our sport-- sometimes it does not pan out the way one hopes-- but the cross to be borne is by all S/S competitors that have not supported the series.This is an observation- not a criticism- but it does take me back to where I came in.These comments do not apply to just S/S but generally-- Cams have seen it as their 'god' given right to dictate to classes andsought to control them.The result is many contrived "National" catergories conceived by few and supported by very few more-- as per the 12 car classes at last Cams NS at P Is. One of the few catergories taht has grown of it's own volition is that latter day HQ's the Saloons. That catergory has grown thru it's popular appeal and achieved numbers nationally.The National series was the culmination of it's maturity-- and at that point the numbers have declined from the highpoint.My point being-- weight of numbers and real support should be the criteria for National series and not what Cams can get out of it.The tail has been wagging the dog for to long.The loser has been motorsport and the competitors as Cams gives it's blessin to rubbish classes and prevents others running.Sports Sedans need to take control of its future and tell -- that is tell-- people what it wants.

[RichC]

Silver 3, where are you coming from? What is it that makes you so interested and knowledgeable about SS? What is your complaint about CAMS' involvement with SS and other categories? Could you detail your solutions, please?

[jd yort]

Did anyone else catch Dean Randles Saab being destroyed on Inside Speed tonight at Phillip Island. An amazing crash from a small tap by Tamasi. They made the comment that they were hoping to have the car repaired in time for the next round which would be an amazing feat. I thought they may have had a slightly larger field for the meeting being it in Vic but it appears they receive as much assistance by the Vic based state series as they do by the NSW state based series. There was no McFadyen or Robinson in the Monaro who I thought may have brought it out of the garage.

[astinus4]

Originally Posted by jd yort

Did anyone else catch Dean Randles Saab being destroyed on Inside Speed tonight at Phillip Island. An amazing crash from a small tap by Tamasi. They made the comment that they were hoping to have the car repaired in time for the next round which would be an amazing feat. I thought they may have had a slightly larger field for the meeting being it in Vic but it appears they receive as much assistance by the Vic based state series as they do by the NSW state based series. There was no McFadyen or Robinson in the Monaro who I thought may have brought it out of the garage.

Yeah I saw that too, an astonishing shunt! I'm glad that he didn't appear to be hurt at all. Under the circumstances I don't blame him for spitting the dummy the way he did.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Yeah huge shunt and it looked spectacular with the bodywork flying off. The wheels were hanging off at funny angles after the heavy landing, but it looked as though the chassis held up well, from a distance anyway.

At the time, he obviously felt like he was punted, but as an outside observer, it looked more like a simple racing incident to me.

[jd yort]

Imagining having to reset all the Geometry of the Saab after that accident, one hell of a job. Does anyone know what type of Audi body type Hossack is running now that he has sold his Saab??.

[RichC]

Audi A4 body, work is taking longer now as they are assisting Dean Randle's rebuild