TIER 1 MOTOR RACING, DOES IT STILl EXIST WITH CREDIBIITY

[promax]

There are a few people here.. more than i thought would be.. but hardly packed though.

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by promax

There are a few people here.. more than i thought would be.. but hardly packed though.

So are we talking over 1000, but less that 3000?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

These lunch break corporate rides are a pathetic waste of time! It's no wonder motorsport crowds are low... if this is considered entertainment.

Generally agree with the exception of that three-seater Arrows F1 car! I could watch (and listen) to that run by all day

[promax]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Generally agree with the exception of that three-seater Arrows F1 car! I could watch (and listen) to that run by all day

corporate rides shouldn't take place during the Sunday lunch break. it's not entertaining. the crowd has no interest in it what so ever.

the silly thing is.. these guys were at the track on Friday.



I think the paying public would've found them more entertaining :/

[promax]

Originally Posted by pukekoheracer

So are we talking over 1000, but less that 3000?

i'll say.. more than 1,000.. less than 1,000,000

[The Realist]

How did the Manfeild Gran Prix Meeting go?

[The Realist]

With the TRS Tier 1 series now concluded, it looks like Manfield did us proud.
Good crowd, large grids of support classes, and a fine, sunny day.
Report was that Formula 5000 was most popular followed by Central Muscle cars and TRS. Coffee class was GT86.
This event promoted by Manfield, and the best event of the TRS series.
Hope 10Seventy was there to get some tuition and ideas.

[promax]

F5000 ahead of CMC?

[socram]

Originally Posted by promax

F5000 ahead of CMC?

Why not? We do need to see real racing cars now and again and historically, outside of F1, these have probably been the most popular racing cars internationally from a spectator viewpoint, if you exclude the Indy cars which are quitter specific to the USA.

CMC are still road cars being raced and popular as they are, they are not in the same class as F5000, though the racing is often fast and furious.

[Rusty Nail]

Originally Posted by The Realist

Report was that Formula 5000 was most popular followed by Central Muscle cars and TRS. Coffee class was GT86.

Whatever floats your boat. For me it's single seaters but Central Muscle cars is always interesting. Formula First and Formula Ford both had nail biting races and were good value with the lead changing several times a lap.

TR86 had Nick Cassidy and that was good to watch too from the point of view of seeing how a really good pedaller can jump into anything and go well. Tom Alexander didn't disgrace himself either with a win and a very close 2nd (0.159sec) and another 2nd. So as much as I think the 86s are a waste of time, that was worth watching.

An absolutely top class TRS meeting with the right support package, there were even a good number of spectators there. Just shows it can be done, and I bet most of the spectators will spread the word and be back next year!

[raymond]

Originally Posted by socram

CMC are still road cars being raced .

Hmmmm....really? Road cars??

[promax]

Originally Posted by socram

Why not? We do need to see real racing cars now and again and historically, outside of F1, these have probably been the most popular racing cars internationally from a spectator viewpoint, if you exclude the Indy cars which are quitter specific to the USA.

CMC are still road cars being raced and popular as they are, they are not in the same class as F5000, though the racing is often fast and furious.

because there was twice as many CMCs than F5000s. plus in the F5000s.. it was Mr Smith first... daylight a distant second.

[socram]

Crunch, a Ford Mustang is/was a road car. A Lola T*** is a race car, pure and simple!

Promax, I take your point but if it is a decent sized grid, most are happy enough with F5000 as they are always impressive. Generally, I am all for large grids but if the F5000's only turned up with 4 or 5, then yes, a larger grid of CMC would be better.

Kenny may well have daylight between himself and the rest of the field, but a fair few years ago, the maestros would be winning by several laps. The 1948 500ccc event at the first Silverstone meeting practice, one 19 years old S. Moss was ten seconds a lap faster than the second man!

[promax]

oh I'm not knocking the F500s. I'm a fan I just thought CMC put on the better show out of the two. which is why i questioned Real putting the F500s ahead of CMC.

[goldedge]

Hi guys interesting discussion,

I guess the question is what do you see as the future for motorsport in NZ?

I see this as an issue much wider than any "label" such as tier one.

Would you want you son or daughter to aspire to a motorsport career in NZ or would you tell them to go overseas ie Australia or europe, or just not to bother?

Is there a reasonable path that doesn't involve a truck load of money for our young kiwi's to follow?

Why do those involved not get it, Successfull Motorsport is about entertaining the public and giving them value for money, every thing else flows from there does it not?

Comments please :-)

[socram]

A balanced race programme meaning various classes with fullish grids would be a good starting point.

That balance ideally means a decent grid of entry level single seaters and a grid of larger engine single seaters. A decent grid of over 3 litre race saloons and a grid of under 3 litre race saloons. (If you want to split those into classes, go for it.
A GT grid.
Maybe a sports car grid - though sports cars today are more sports racing cars than Lotus 7s or Clubmans - but I'm not sure about that.
A grid of classics, maybe even two grids, be they Muscle cars or Sports GT/Saloons or Historic race saloons.

Absolutely no control one make/model classes. These are never sustainable and over the years, only Mini Sevens (with two or three classes) have lasted.

Utes have no place on the racetrack at all in my book.

There is enough space in a two day meeting to add other classes on a local or invitational one off basis.

But, decent sized grids are an absolute must and if small factions want their own sand pits to play in, then let them organize and promote their own race meetings and carry all the associated costs.

[mikuni]

Agreed. Add to that, open pits that the public can walk around, perhaps even a little bit of an air show or other decent entertainment at lunch time (not hot laps, it needs to be actual action) and it would actually be an event worth attending.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by socram

A balanced race programme meaning various classes with fullish grids would be a good starting point.

...

But, decent sized grids are an absolute must and if small factions want their own sand pits to play in, then let them organize and promote their own race meetings and carry all the associated costs.

Agreed.

Probably the wrong thread for this, but my idea of a good “summer series” meeting. Not all at all the meetings as I think you need to create a reason for punters to attend more than one meeting.

· One field of V8's a combination of ST, TLX including TL as I believe there are enough of them to bolster the field in the short term

· TRS (may not be at all meetings due to their 5 in a row preference)

· NZ F/Ford or in their place at some meetings F/First

· NZ utes, if they follow the structure of Australia, again letting in different manufacturers, hell even use the Aussie ones so there can be a true trans tasman battle

· ONE one make Series such as TR86, providing there are about 20 of them. Not necessarily TR86 as I believe they are simply too dear, but Suzuki Swift cup etc was perfect. Im not sure why these series cant survive without the manufacturer support? It seems that they all fall over once the manufacturer pulls the pin. Similar to the Ssangyong thing but cars, not utes or SUV’s

· Production racing along the lines of 2K cup… but more like $35k-$40k cup. As in standard cars, no tricky bits, very very limited mods allowed, New corolla’s, Mazda 3, Focus, VW Golf etc battling it out. No limited editions etc allowed or set a maximum RRP, something along the lines of 2.0 litre fwd cars only, or only allowed up to manufacturers specs of 120kw max etc. Factory sealed engines.

· Then each round to have a different class or two, the likes of F5000, muscle cars, historic touring cars or other top level classic classic class, GTRNZ/OSCA or a NZ champ round of the “traditionals” like Pro7, Pre65 etc, or Trucks. But different classes per round, so that when I go to say Ruapuna and Timaru I don’t see exactly the same show.

Have a basic core product that travels the country to ALL circuits, with different ‘support’ classes. Practice & qualify Saturday, all races on Sunday with non-stop action.

No BS safety cars rides at lunchtime or between races etc, concentrate on quickfire races. If you start at 9am & its all over by 3pm then that’s awesome, punters have seen say 7 classes do 3 races so 21 races in a day & hopefully go home happy with time to still mow the lawn.

Get rid of this programme delay stuff where your race starts at 1.37pm & you cant start before then. More like your race is after the TRS so be ready to go then! Also no live TV as it dilutes your paying audience as well as creates programme delays & costs $$$$$$$ that no-one has

Just my thoughts....

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by goldedge

Hi guys interesting discussion,

I guess the question is what do you see as the future for motorsport in NZ?

I see this as an issue much wider than any "label" such as tier one.

Would you want you son or daughter to aspire to a motorsport career in NZ or would you tell them to go overseas ie Australia or europe, or just not to bother?

Is there a reasonable path that doesn't involve a truck load of money for our young kiwi's to follow?

Why do those involved not get it, Successfull Motorsport is about entertaining the public and giving them value for money, every thing else flows from there does it not?

Comments please :-)

I wouldn't recommend motorsport as a "career" for anyone unless you like lots of financial hardship, a very erratic job climate(whether driver, mechanic, engineer, etc.) and lots of travel(and not the exciting type of travel you might think either).

It doesn't matter what country you are in, outside of a local club level, motorsport is horrendously expensive and time consuming and to do it for the long term you've got to have the finances to fuel it. In a country like New Zealand you might have some top drivers who maybe got paid to drive at times within the country or found enough sponsorship to at least sustain racing their car, but anyone looking for a real "career" would simply have to leave the country for overseas.

Also don't fool yourself, no matter how you do it involves truckloads of money and no guarantee of a return either. What I tell young drivers is that unless you have incredible world beating talent, a very wealthy dad or a very wealthy patron, don't bother. Be involved as much as you can be, but invest your money in yourself. Get a great education, learn skills that make money, build your own business up and then when you are independently wealthy a few decades down the road you can do whatever the hell you want. And that goes for any country you are from. I cite Zak Brown as an example. He wasn't a very good driver, but was good at marketing, so started a one man motorsports marketing agency 20 years ago, turned it into a multinational corporation sourcing sponsorship for F1 and Nascar, among others. Now he's in his early 40's, can afford his own race team and has a fleet of his own historic F1 cars. That's the smart thing to do.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by CDM

Agreed.

Probably the wrong thread for this, but my idea of a good “summer series” meeting. Not all at all the meetings as I think you need to create a reason for punters to attend more than one meeting.

· One field of V8's a combination of ST, TLX including TL as I believe there are enough of them to bolster the field in the short term

· TRS (may not be at all meetings due to their 5 in a row preference)

· NZ F/Ford or in their place at some meetings F/First

· NZ utes, if they follow the structure of Australia, again letting in different manufacturers, hell even use the Aussie ones so there can be a true trans tasman battle

· ONE one make Series such as TR86, providing there are about 20 of them. Not necessarily TR86 as I believe they are simply too dear, but Suzuki Swift cup etc was perfect. Im not sure why these series cant survive without the manufacturer support? It seems that they all fall over once the manufacturer pulls the pin. Similar to the Ssangyong thing but cars, not utes or SUV’s

· Production racing along the lines of 2K cup… but more like $35k-$40k cup. As in standard cars, no tricky bits, very very limited mods allowed, New corolla’s, Mazda 3, Focus, VW Golf etc battling it out. No limited editions etc allowed or set a maximum RRP, something along the lines of 2.0 litre fwd cars only, or only allowed up to manufacturers specs of 120kw max etc. Factory sealed engines.

· Then each round to have a different class or two, the likes of F5000, muscle cars, historic touring cars or other top level classic classic class, GTRNZ/OSCA or a NZ champ round of the “traditionals” like Pro7, Pre65 etc, or Trucks. But different classes per round, so that when I go to say Ruapuna and Timaru I don’t see exactly the same show.

Have a basic core product that travels the country to ALL circuits, with different ‘support’ classes. Practice & qualify Saturday, all races on Sunday with non-stop action.

No BS safety cars rides at lunchtime or between races etc, concentrate on quickfire races. If you start at 9am & its all over by 3pm then that’s awesome, punters have seen say 7 classes do 3 races so 21 races in a day & hopefully go home happy with time to still mow the lawn.

Get rid of this programme delay stuff where your race starts at 1.37pm & you cant start before then. More like your race is after the TRS so be ready to go then! Also no live TV as it dilutes your paying audience as well as creates programme delays & costs $$$$$$$ that no-one has

Just my thoughts....

Back to the future with some fine tuning!

Looks good to me.

Great post Mr CDM