Mini Challenge Crash at QLD Raceway - Spectator Safety

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Trusting you weren't the machanic on said vehicles...

He was being tested in one and was the tester in the other!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

What did she need to retain grip for? The car was going into the wall, thats a given. There was a car infront of her, that she avoided perfectly. End of story i would have thought....


Have you been in a car with a stuck throttle? (And i'm not saying thats what her problem was, but thats what is being reported as).

I have been a driver, and both a passenger, in cars that the throttles have jammed on (although not in a track situation). Even on the street at slow speed, there isn't alot of time to react.....And if the wheels are spinning, thats what they'll continue to do.

I don't think she needed to go into the wall though. Nor have I heard it confirmed 100% that indeed it was a mechanical stuck throttle.

Mostly I think you have a driver that may have some ability to get a car up to speed but no practice or knowledge of what to do in an emergency situation.

As a driver I think if you have the attitude to enter skids and never attempt recovery then you are not going to last long as a driver.

Yes I have been in a car with a "stuck throttle" and both times pulled the drivers leg off of it. And no there isn't a lot of time to react that's why you need to be switched on with what you are doing. I also believe that is why as a driver you need to continue to train and educate yourself about driving techniques. There are even guys in V8 Supercars that have a lot to learn.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Trusting you weren't the machanic on said vehicles...

Correct. The one where i was a passenger, it was his own car. It had done it to him before aswell (the time before it was manual, so he could just clutch in). By the time he got the key off, the car was already in a fence (note to mr tetley, a temp fence didn't stop an almost 2 tonne falcoon)

The other car was my own, but was unchanged from the factory....(was manual though)

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I don't think she needed to go into the wall though. Nor have I heard it confirmed 100% that indeed it was a mechanical stuck throttle.

Mostly I think you have a driver that may have some ability to get a car up to speed but no practice or knowledge of what to do in an emergency situation.

As a driver I think if you have the attitude to enter skids and never attempt recovery then you are not going to last long as a driver.

Well whatever it was, it made her keep her momentum (the brake lights were on, although they flashed off then back on) when they showed the view from the car behind.

Of course, every person who see's any crash, has a better way things could have been done but thats after the fact.

And yes, track, and moreso road, there are a ****load of people who are allowed to drive, yet have no clue how to perform basic manoeuvres, let alone emergency ones.

[speedreader]

Originally Posted by MOUNTAINSTAR
I don't think she needed to go into the wall though. Nor have I heard it confirmed 100% that indeed it was a mechanical stuck throttle.

Mostly I think you have a driver that may have some ability to get a car up to speed but no practice or knowledge of what to do in an emergency situation.

Sorry Mountainstar, please dont take this personally but man do I get fed up with keyboard super heroes - have you had a go at Hamilton for not being able to avoid the wall after his tyre blow out too !!!

People gain 'practice & knowledge' with experience & you gain the experience by competing. Some are lucky & gain the necessary experience to address a certain situation before it arises and others may be forced into a situation a little sooner but either way, that's how you learn - DUH !!!

In Sarah's case we dont know if it was a stuck throttle or not, we dont know why there was no attempt to turn into or away from the wall, we dont know if she was attempting to control the car or just not take out a fellow competitor - in other words none of us know & to sit here & go on about her inexperience is nothing but egotistical 'I could have done better' bu****it.

Grow up

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by speedreader

Sorry Mountainstar, please dont take this personally but man do I get fed up with keyboard super heroes - have you had a go at Hamilton for not being able to avoid the wall after his tyre blow out too !!!

People gain 'practice & knowledge' with experience & you gain the experience by competing. Some are lucky & gain the necessary experience to address a certain situation before it arises and others may be forced into a situation a little sooner but either way, that's how you learn - DUH !!!

In Sarah's case we dont know if it was a stuck throttle or not, we dont know why there was no attempt to turn into or away from the wall, we dont know if she was attempting to control the car or just not take out a fellow competitor - in other words none of us know & to sit here & go on about her inexperience is nothing but egotistical 'I could have done better' bu****it.

Grow up

Jeez pal, don't get so bent out of shape.

Unfortunately for you I am no keyboard super hero. This is what I do for a living and quite well by all accounts.

Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. Certainly having experience is great, but knowledge and learning from mistakes is great as well.

By the way for all the touchy emotions I am not taking her to task personally as though it is some vendetta, I have no idea who she is and don't know much about her. There is nothing wrong with looking at a incident, discussing it and learning from what went wrong. This is a discussion forum not a one way opinion train.

I'll be more than happy to make a contribution to your blood pressure meds.

Cheers,

[speedreader]

Originally posted by Mountainstar
This is a discussion forum not a one way opinion train

Exactly - couldnt have said it better myself

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it seemed, IMHO & most likely Stealthy too, your comments were strongly and repeatedly directed toward the driver and her inability to react to the situation rather than the incident itself but WITHOUT actually knowing any of the facts that caused the incident in the first place - a bit tough & because 'mud can stick' not fair on the driver (and I have no idea who she is either)

Anyway, love reading your posts 'most of the time' so keep smiling
.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by speedreader

Exactly - couldnt have said it better myself

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it seemed, IMHO & most likely Stealthy too, your comments were strongly and repeatedly directed toward the driver and her inability to react to the situation rather than the incident itself but WITHOUT actually knowing any of the facts that caused the incident in the first place - a bit tough & because 'mud can stick' not fair on the driver (and I have no idea who she is either)

Anyway, love reading your posts 'most of the time' so keep smiling
.

People can say what they like on the internet.....

But as everyone knows there are always crashes in motorsport.

There was a mechanical failure of some sort, and to me it looked like she did the best with what limited time she had (hence why my opinion is so differing from ms's).

No offence to you mountainstar, but i hear alot of people talk them selves up about how good they are at their job, and 90% of the time, they are the most useless of anyone.....(just the fact they've been doing it for years makes them better than anyone else, but only their own opinion....)

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

People can say what they like on the internet.....

But as everyone knows there are always crashes in motorsport.

There was a mechanical failure of some sort, and to me it looked like she did the best with what limited time she had (hence why my opinion is so differing from ms's).

No offence to you mountainstar, but i hear alot of people talk them selves up about how good they are at their job, and 90% of the time, they are the most useless of anyone.....(just the fact they've been doing it for years makes them better than anyone else, but only their own opinion....)

Well I guess I'll have to let my clients know I'm useless. They didn't seem to think so, so it will be news to them, but hopefully they'll take it well.

It just so happens this is what I do for a living and what I am paid to talk about and demonstrate all day and night long. If people have no interest in drawing from my depth of knowledge and skills or bothering to debate without getting upset and personal, please put me on ignore.

Actually I think she could have done better. And I think a lot of drivers can always do better. I don't have the glass half empty approach you have, but the glass half full. Accidents are not accidents. They happen for a reason and I think you are a fool as a driver to have that attitude and not attempt to learn and do better. I've had students such as you with a defeatist attitude and that is a tough barrier to crack.

[NewsStalker]

How much more chest thumping can this thread take? So you're better than everyone else - live with it but we don't need to hear abot it every message!

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

How much more chest thumping can this thread take? So you're better than everyone else - live with it but we don't need to hear abot it every message!

This is basically what i was getting at.

MS, my comment was, i have worked with alot of people, in differing fields, and just because they've been doing it for so long, they think their god. Thats how your coming across. And people with a god complex are usually the worst at their job, but can't admit it.
I never said anything about my driving, but if you must know, I dont drive outside MY limits, or my cars limits.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

How much more chest thumping can this thread take? So you're better than everyone else - live with it but we don't need to hear abot it every message!

Popping it into neutral, that probably would have helped as well. Stuck throttle and all.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

This is basically what i was getting at.

MS, my comment was, i have worked with alot of people, in differing fields, and just because they've been doing it for so long, they think their god. Thats how your coming across. And people with a god complex are usually the worst at their job, but can't admit it.
I never said anything about my driving, but if you must know, I dont drive outside MY limits, or my cars limits.

Actually I am known for being very understated and "quietly confident" rather than a pompous ass with a god like complex. If you view this thread, I fail to see where all this great glorification of myself occurred. I only brought my knowledge to bear which apparently people would rather resort to personal attacks rather than bringing their knowledge to bear and debating the issue in a civil matter.

Sad really. I think it could be an interesting debate about vehicle dynamics and track safety, but some would rather just attack the person rather than have a good debate.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Actually I think she could have done better. And I think a lot of drivers can always do better.

I'm sure she could have. I'm equally sure I could have done better too, although I'm fairly confident that I probably wouldn't have. I'd probably just have gone 'Oh, dear, I'm going to crash' and then proved myself right.

[DAVID PATERSON]

My race car had a stuck throttle two years ago and hit the wall head on at about 90km/h. I'm still in pain with no relief in sight and i'm also sick of hearing experts ask me why i didn't hit the kill switch, why i didn't declutch, why i didn't knock it out of gear etc. etc. etc.

Fact is, it took just two seconds from the time the throttle stuck until the car hit the wall. I used up part of the time standing on the brake pedal trying to figure out what was wrong and then in the remaining blink of eye I had several options available, some of which i simply didn't think of until after the crash and obviously I didn't choose the right ones.

The point i'm trying to make is that crashes happen, very quickly, without warning, there is no pause button and no escape key. Nearly all race drivers know the theory of what to do in these cases, but in reality I suggest that many or most of them would make some wrong decsions in their mad scramble to do something to stop the world turning brown!

[Jacal]

I'm with David on this, I've had the throttle stick open at nearer 120k with someone up my tail and someone in front, by the time it registers you aren't stopping as quickly as last time through that corner, you've avoided the guy in front, you've figured out what happened, you've found both neutral or the clutch and the kill switch you're off the road.

How do you learn this stuff, practice, how do you practice a mechanical failure, you can't. BUT you can be aware of where everything is and have a rehearsed sequence for some eventualities.

For me I have a routine which everytime I get in the car I identify 2 or 3 things that I can do if something goes wrong.
1. Where is the engine switch? extend left index finger and flick up.
2. Is Fire bomb on, connected and battery working - activate pushbutton (put in check mode first) then switch to active.
3. Rollover / impact drill - cross hands on chest and grab belt, tuck under if possible (small openwheeler and the risk is of arms flying out of the cockpit or breaking a wrist on impact from holding onto the wheel).

Will any of it work ? some of it has already, hopefully I don't get to find out about the rest of it.

Most importantly After an incident learn from it, thankfully there was lots of runoff and I found the clutch and kill switch pretty quickly so no damage. But all bolts, screws and electrical connectors whether they have a lock nut or nut have a small dab of silicon connecting them to whatever they are holding together so they don't fall down the carby venturi into the butterfly.

[Bevan-L]

All of you are wrong. I'm right cos like i sit on the internets and stuff and i search google and wikipedia, and thats always right. the accident was caused by a malfunctioning polarizer which caused the molecules to become misaligned and at 90' to each other. Just so you know and stuff.....

my dads friends cousin who was at the track confirms it.

[xr8]

Hey Guys n Gals! I think she did very well!
The last girl, er, I mean guy (Maybe) that had a stuck throttle, in a ford exploder,
well he took about sixty kays to pull it up and did a lot of girly screaming in the process.
Well this gal only took about 50 yards to pull it up! Well done I say.

[PVDA]

We can all sit here in hindsight and say she should've done this or that but she managed not to take out another car and the safety systems in the race car protected her from serious injury.

[Gaz170]

Yes the car did a great job protecting her, but the track certainly didn't!

That and the previous accident pointed out some serious deficiencies there.

[motorfoto]

There are no "serious deficiencies" with the primary or secondary safety elements at Queensland Raceway.

It was designed to meet the CAMS Standards for runoff and safety to the very last millimetre. If the standards were to be changed, CAMS would need to quantify the reasons why the standards required review. Since QR was built, an Australian Standard for "Risk Management in Motor Sport" has also been published, and the circuit complies with this new standard.

The design objective at QR was to bring the spectators as close as possible to the racing, without exposing them to excessive risk. However, you can never completely eliminate risk at the track, only manage it to what is defined in the standard as acceptable.

Given all that and knowing what I know about the design at QR, there are places where I personally choose not to spectate for long periods. I take some personal responsibility for my own risk management - I don't expect someone else to be always watching out for me and keeping me perfectly safe.

If you are close enough to feel the adrenelin rush when a car goes by, you are close enough to be struck by flying debris of an accident/component failure - listen up to the warnings from your own body folks !.

However, Motor Sport is Dangerous, and that in part is why we are passionate about it, but we should never expect that it will ever be perfectly safe for participants or spectators.

There were many factors that contributed to the two incidents at Turn 6 at QR, and the track layout/design was a minor component in my opinion. If any one of those other factors had varied (car physics/design, driver actions, spectator number & location, etc), the outcome would have been entirely different and no one would have been placed at additional risk. It was a freak event !.

I look forward to reading the outcome of any formal investigation/report into these incidents, if they are made public (or leaked !!!).

[speedreader]

Yay, someone talking common sense - well said motorfoto

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by motorfoto

There are no "serious deficiencies" with the primary or secondary safety elements at Queensland Raceway.

It was designed to meet the CAMS Standards for runoff and safety to the very last millimetre. If the standards were to be changed, CAMS would need to quantify the reasons why the standards required review. Since QR was built, an Australian Standard for "Risk Management in Motor Sport" has also been published, and the circuit complies with this new standard.

The design objective at QR was to bring the spectators as close as possible to the racing, without exposing them to excessive risk. However, you can never completely eliminate risk at the track, only manage it to what is defined in the standard as acceptable.

Given all that and knowing what I know about the design at QR, there are places where I personally choose not to spectate for long periods. I take some personal responsibility for my own risk management - I don't expect someone else to be always watching out for me and keeping me perfectly safe.

If you are close enough to feel the adrenelin rush when a car goes by, you are close enough to be struck by flying debris of an accident/component failure - listen up to the warnings from your own body folks !.

However, Motor Sport is Dangerous, and that in part is why we are passionate about it, but we should never expect that it will ever be perfectly safe for participants or spectators.

There were many factors that contributed to the two incidents at Turn 6 at QR, and the track layout/design was a minor component in my opinion. If any one of those other factors had varied (car physics/design, driver actions, spectator number & location, etc), the outcome would have been entirely different and no one would have been placed at additional risk. It was a freak event !.

I look forward to reading the outcome of any formal investigation/report into these incidents, if they are made public (or leaked !!!).

Great Read!!!! to bad the place is turning into a nanny state. gotta rely on rules and governements to tell you whats right and wrong... that brain we have up there... thats just a counterweight so u can stand up straight... not used for anythin else..