Rolex Series/Continental Tire SCC 2012 Discussion - Page 7

Ken_T · 18 Nov 2011, 00:08 (Ref:2988016)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Yeah, I think that the DPG3 is a real attempt to fix the problems that arose with their first generation DPs. They wanted a lot of road-resemblance in the cars but it didn't quite turn out that way. This Corvette is the first of what I hope is many cars that look somewhat like what is on the road. A Cayman- or 911-based Porsche would be cool, would be quite reminiscent of the 911 GT1.

I'm not sure if there is a future for a Rolex Series tie-in with DTM, as it seems there will simply be an American DTM series, cool idea though.

Chris

A Cayman or 911 would be cool. An R8 would be great too. Audi did have an engine approved, but I dont think anyone ran it.

Ken

FstrthnU · 18 Nov 2011, 18:54 (Ref:2988393)

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...s-to-rolex-gt/
Extreme Speed Motorsports says they'll run a Ferrari 458 Italia in the Daytona 24 Hour and a limited selection of other Rolex events to supplement their ALMS program

**FIRE** · 18 Nov 2011, 20:47 (Ref:2988466)

The Corvette looks like a Mosler v2.0 but that's not a bad thing. I like it.

WolfsburgRS · 19 Nov 2011, 01:40 (Ref:2988604)

One million dollars in additional prize money to be spread out among the full-season Grand Am entries for 2012. Pretty interesting ploy. Might give cause for pause for any would-be Daytona-only entries, some real prize-money could very well sway people to consider a full entry...

Speed-King · 19 Nov 2011, 01:46 (Ref:2988606)

Well... 1 Million Dollar sounds like a lot, but when you spread it out between 20 teams (Top 10 in DP and GT), there's not all that much left for the indiviual teams, especially if you assume that the payout will be somewhat top-heavy and most will end up with the likes of Ganassi, Gainsco or Brumos, i.e. teams that are already relatively well-funded...

With budgets of 1 (GT) or 2 (DP) million, $15.000 or $20.000 at the end of the year really isn't all that much, is it?

**joeb** · 19 Nov 2011, 17:28 (Ref:2988809)

I thought it said the money would be split evenly between the teams, so 10th is as good as first

Speed-King · 19 Nov 2011, 17:35 (Ref:2988810)

Quote:

The top-10 finishers in Daytona Prototype and GT will share equally in their post-season payout per class.

I read this as evenly between DP and GT, but not necessarily evenly with in the classes.

But even if it were spread out evenly, $50.000 is just a drop in the bucket in a budget of 1-3 million.

dxk1 · 19 Nov 2011, 22:26 (Ref:2988913)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

The Corvette looks like a Mosler v2.0 but that's not a bad thing. I like it.

I have to agree. Also, it is the best looking DP ever and hopefully some other companies will see the benefit in this and come up with their own versions. How about a Ferrari DP?

DK

Jonerz · 19 Nov 2011, 23:09 (Ref:2988936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxk1

I have to agree. Also, it is the best looking DP ever and hopefully some other companies will see the benefit in this and come up with their own versions. How about a Ferrari DP?

DK

A Ferrari DP has been a reasonable proposition since DPG1; take the bodywork styling of a 333SP and put the (355/360/430/458) V8 in it. I'm honestly surprised it didn't happen. Will be interesting to see who joins the fray in the DPG3 era.

Chris

Speed-King · 19 Nov 2011, 23:47 (Ref:2988953)

I don't see a Ferrari-DP anytime soon... Ferrari-powered perhaps, but I can't see Maranello putting their styling on a chassis they have no technical input it, same goes for other premium-manufacturers.

Jonerz · 20 Nov 2011, 02:06 (Ref:2989007)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't see a Ferrari-DP anytime soon... Ferrari-powered perhaps, but I can't see Maranello putting their styling on a chassis they have no technical input it, same goes for other premium-manufacturers.

Yeah, I meant more a Level 5 or someone commissioning Riley to build it.

Chris

Speed-King · 20 Nov 2011, 02:39 (Ref:2989015)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Yeah, I meant more a Level 5 or someone commissioning Riley to build it.

Chris

Some interesting questions there, actually. Can non-manufacturers have their own bodywork (always assuming that it is not exclusively available to them) and could they name it after a car manufacturer's product?
Or are the only legal bodykits either from chassis-constructors or car-manufacturers?

rich07 · 20 Nov 2011, 03:49 (Ref:2989037)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...s-to-rolex-gt/
Extreme Speed Motorsports says they'll run a Ferrari 458 Italia in the Daytona 24 Hour and a limited selection of other Rolex events to supplement their ALMS program

Thats great news to see another Ferrari in Grand AM especially with THAT livery.

cmk · 20 Nov 2011, 04:25 (Ref:2989043)

It is nice to see so many quality teams from 'the other side of the fence' supporting the Rolex 24 but simultaneously the amount of bet hedging occurring through limited programs in series X combined with full programs in series Y makes me wish we had a unified series Z. Bet-hedging strategies can be adaptive in nature but I fear in sportscar racing they are too suggestive of ending up with no series at all...

**skycafe** · 20 Nov 2011, 06:44 (Ref:2989054)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmk

makes me wish we had a unified series Z. Bet-hedging strategies can be adaptive in nature but I fear in sportscar racing they are too suggestive of ending up with no series at all...

well put. In a tough market because of the economy, and in a market where you have Nascar with not one, but what, three, series that get more media on their own then the other series in the States combined, then this competition for the sportscar segment seems to be handicapping that segment.

They compete for tracks and media. One seems to have excluded the other from a lot of the tracks with 'tradition' for the genre, and the other has taken one track and created an event at another that is a viable entity.

I don't see either party 'giving' at this point, and now there is a global influence tipping at the apple cart of one of the entities. Honestly it seems a big mess that is going to handicap sportscar racing in the US for a long time. At some point you feel the houses of cards will just flump into a pile and out of the ashes there will come a new series pulling from the ashes of both and whatever else may fit, sort of like the early IMSA days.

I guess that is just the way it always will be.

KA · 20 Nov 2011, 07:18 (Ref:2989065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Some interesting questions there, actually. Can non-manufacturers have their own bodywork (always assuming that it is not exclusively available to them) and could they name it after a car manufacturer's product?
Or are the only legal bodykits either from chassis-constructors or car-manufacturers?

As you say, that's an interesting question- though in the case of Ferrari, I suspect the answer would be 'No'- like you suggest, I don't see them putting their name to something they have no input in, and I suspect any team who tried to go it alone by producing/commissioning a 'Ferrari' body without approval from Maranello would find themselves hearing from Ferrari's lawyers pretty quickly...

dxk1 · 20 Nov 2011, 21:10 (Ref:2989309)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't see a Ferrari-DP anytime soon... Ferrari-powered perhaps, but I can't see Maranello putting their styling on a chassis they have no technical input it, same goes for other premium-manufacturers.

Couldn't they pay someone like Dalara just like Corvette has used a combination of inputs from various groups including P&M, Riley et al? That certainly wouldn't tax their resources too much and helps build a very useful market in the US.

DK

Speed-King · 20 Nov 2011, 21:43 (Ref:2989315)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxk1

Couldn't they pay someone like Dalara just like Corvette has used a combination of inputs from various groups including P&M, Riley et al? That certainly wouldn't tax their resources too much and helps build a very useful market in the US.

DK

Of course they *could* - the question is if they would want to put their name on a product they have no input in...

Jimmy Magnusson · 20 Nov 2011, 23:53 (Ref:2989351)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Some interesting questions there, actually. Can non-manufacturers have their own bodywork (always assuming that it is not exclusively available to them) and could they name it after a car manufacturer's product?

They certainly couldn't name it. Such things would be the Intelectual Property of the manufacturer and not used without their concent. Whether they'd be allowed by the series to produce body kits with certain styling cues is a whole different matter. But I'm sure if any manufacturer doesn't like their likeness appearing in GA they'd just excert a bit of pressure on the organizers - it would hardly be worth the trouble for any team to try it.

kyoung · 21 Nov 2011, 14:52 (Ref:2989627)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Of course they *could* - the question is if they would want to put their name on a product they have no input in...

BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Chevy, and Ford have, and it’s not like anyone is gaining any advantage from the platforms. They could use it as a test bed for engine development like everybody else.

**joeb** · 21 Nov 2011, 15:29 (Ref:2989641)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoung

BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Chevy, and Ford have, and it’s not like anyone is gaining any advantage from the platforms. They could use it as a test bed for engine development like everybody else.

I'm not sure that you could use a DP engine for "development" purposes. No matter what the brand, GA regulates the engine rules heavily. We have seen the Dinan BMW's get pegged back when it was found they had an advantage - although they may have been outside the rules

Jonerz · 21 Nov 2011, 16:43 (Ref:2989684)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

They certainly couldn't name it. Such things would be the Intelectual Property of the manufacturer and not used without their concent. Whether they'd be allowed by the series to produce body kits with certain styling cues is a whole different matter. But I'm sure if any manufacturer doesn't like their likeness appearing in GA they'd just excert a bit of pressure on the organizers - it would hardly be worth the trouble for any team to try it.

I hadn't even thought of that, silly question I suppose.

Chris

picchiofan · 21 Nov 2011, 19:47 (Ref:2989745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I read this as evenly between DP and GT, but not necessarily evenly with in the classes.

But even if it were spread out evenly, $50.000 is just a drop in the bucket in a budget of 1-3 million.

It's a bonus, in addition to the standard purse.

When you figure that the entire combined ALMS purse last year for all ~35 or so entrants was 1.6 million, a 1 mill bonus on top of the purse is a nice little incentive to woo a few more teams. A full time GTC Porsche might look more favorably at a full time GAGT program with a little more incentive.

Racenut · 21 Nov 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2989760)

Quote:

Originally Posted by picchiofan

It's a bonus, in addition to the standard purse.

When you figure that the entire combined ALMS purse last year for all ~35 or so entrants was 1.6 million, a 1 mill bonus on top of the purse is a nice little incentive to woo a few more teams. A full time GTC Porsche might look more favorably at a full time GAGT program with a little more incentive.

As a matter of interest what sort of prizemoney are GA GT teams getting now? I have read that some events have prizemoney, plus I believe there is a series purse.

Anyone know?

Speed-King · 21 Nov 2011, 21:07 (Ref:2989770)

2011 Rolex 24 purse info:
http://204.12.108.2/assets/2011Rolex...aRacePurse.pdf

2011 Rolex series regular race purse info:
http://204.12.108.2/assets/2011RolexRacePurse.pdf

$100.000 for winning the 24 in DP
$40.000 for all the other races, notwithstanding special bounties, contingency money and the like.

Couldn't find any hard numbers for 2012.

Contingency-money in DP is $5.000 for race wins from most engine manufacturers, with Ford having a special bonus for the 24hours at 25.000$ - then there's a bunch of small contingency money from other suppliers (brakes, clutches, airgas, etc.) usually a couple hundred bucks each.

Interestingly, contingency money is higher in the Continental Tire Series, with Mazda and Honda paying $8.000 and $10.000 for race wins in ST. Mini and BMW are a bit more miserly at $5.000 or $4.000, but that's also as good as it gets in the GS ranks with a Mustang, M3 or Camaro - and when you consider the running costs of a ST-car it is probably the class that makes most financial sense in Grand Am.

More at: http://admin.grand-am.com/news/index...view&cid=13519

And actual prize money for Conti Challenge is at $11.000 (GS) and $8.000 (ST). Going from these numbers, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are more drivers getting a paycheck in ST than in all other GA-classes...

http://204.12.108.2/assets/ContiRace%20purse11.pdf

Same or similar contigency rates apply by the way for World Challenge Touring Cars, but if you want to make a real killing there, go race a VW - $15.000 per race win, and usually two races per weekend!
http://www.world-challenge.com/files...s/11-VW-WC.pdf

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