[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[Taxi645]

If Red Bull are serious about the WDC next year, they better have a real good look at their second seat and on short nottice. At the current rate, within their current pool, it ain't looking all that great.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If Red Bull are serious about the WDC next year, they better have a real good look at their second seat and on short nottice. At the current rate, within their current pool, it ain't looking all that great.

Chopping and changing, dropping and promoting and dropping again and again is not a good medium or long term solution.

Albon - who is a rookie lets not forget, and had seemingly been got rid of by Red Bull entirely, but now has been thrown in the deep end. Doing OK, but it's hard to expect him to do any better given that all the testing he has done was in the other car. Did quite well at Singapore.

Gasly - did pretty well last year at Torro Rosso. Don't know what went wrong this time round.

Kvyatt - Who has been given a drive, promoted, relegated, dropped and reintroduced.


It all seems a bit chaotic.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Chopping and changing, dropping and promoting and dropping again and again is not a good medium or long term solution.

Albon - who is a rookie lets not forget, and had seemingly been got rid of by Red Bull entirely, but now has been thrown in the deep end. Doing OK, but it's hard to expect him to do any better given that all the testing he has done was in the other car. Did quite well at Singapore.

Gasly - did pretty well last year at Torro Rosso. Don't know what went wrong this time round.

Kvyatt - Who has been given a drive, promoted, relegated, dropped and reintroduced.


It all seems a bit chaotic.

I reckon the short of it is, neither of the 3 in their pool are likely good enough to be sufficient (strategic) help in next years campaign. If they are as serious about the WDC next year as they say they are, they have to be frank and admit that neither in the RB driver program is gonna cut it as a 2nd driver and they need someone from the outside.


They would rather solve it from within the RB program better I think they have to be realistic rather sooner than later.



Maybe Marko is playing hardball with Hulkenberg to get his salary down?

[Peter Mallett]

Not sure if I missed something but have they said Albon will be replaced? He's been pretty close to Max, comparatively, and he had never been to Singapore before.

[S griffin]

Maybe they could afford to look outside the Red Bull stable. They could do a lot worse than sign up Hulkenberg

[Taxi645]

It is not about what is said, but what is shown on track. They need someone who can stay within 0.2-0.25s from Verstappen in both qualy and the race to take points from the competition and to be of any strategic use during races.



None within the RB pool have shown to be capable of doing that yet.

Originally Posted by S griffin

Maybe they could afford to look outside the Red Bull stable. They could do a lot worse than sign up Hulkenberg

Agreed.

[Kempi]

They need someone who can stay within 0.2-0.25s from Verstappen in both qualy and the race

Does this person exist outside of Hamilton, Leclerc and (with an asterix due to his performance over the last 12 months) Vettel?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not sure if I missed something but have they said Albon will be replaced? He's been pretty close to Max, comparatively, and he had never been to Singapore before.

AFAIK he is, as he always was, there for evaluation with a view to next year / longer term. I have read nothing from the team to suggest he is not meeting expectations, or his position is at risk. In fact what I have read is quite the opposite, especially from Horner.

On the other hand Marko has been very dismissive about Hulkenberg. In fact I read somewhere in a quote attributed to Nico, that Marko had told him to stop ringing him re a drive..

[S griffin]

Just consider that Hulk has been quite close in terms of pace to Danny, who was more than a match for Max when they were team mates and there seems no reason that Hulk wouldn’t do a bad job in the second seat

[gert]

If Marko doesn't like him, then he won't even be considered for the 2nd car.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by gert

If Marko doesn't like him, then he won't even be considered for the 2nd car.

And sadly he's becoming even grumpier and more dismissive of drivers he didn't find as a teenager. And gives no driver time to grow in F1

[wnut]

Originally Posted by E.B

AFAIK he is, as he always was, there for evaluation with a view to next year / longer term. I have read nothing from the team to suggest he is not meeting expectations, or his position is at risk. In fact what I have read is quite the opposite, especially from Horner.

On the other hand Marko has been very dismissive about Hulkenberg. In fact I read somewhere in a quote attributed to Nico, that Marko had told him to stop ringing him re a drive..

There was an interview a while back where Adrian Newey said outright that Hulkenberg was too big and heavy to package in a car. He has no chance at RBR.

[Taxi645]

Norris would be a good match. Very good speed, good spirited, get's along very well with Max and can easily fit in the same car. Two very fast guys that get along well is very nice to have as a team.

But I suspect he doesn't have an escape clause in his McLaren contract.

Perhaps I'm too swift to right off Gasly and Albon, but as said if they are serious about next make do with what we have won't cut it.

[S griffin]

It doesn't seem right that a driver can't get a ride because he's too tall. But that's always been a problem with F1 unfortunately. They need to be almost jockey sized to be fully competitive

[gert]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Norris would be a good match. Very good speed, good spirited, get's along very well with Max and can easily fit in the same car. Two very fast guys that get along well is very nice to have as a team.

Perhaps they should have given Carlos Sainz a better treatment a few years back

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by gert

Perhaps they should have given Carlos Sainz a better treatment a few years back

I don't know the in and outs of that episode, but always in favor of treating people respectfully.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by gert

If Marko doesn't like him, then he won't even be considered for the 2nd car.

This is Redbulls biggest problem, a miserable old git letting his emotions dictate his decisions. The number of drivers' careers he has severely damaged is disgraceful, hopefully karma will catch up with him soon and pay him back twice over.

If they had treated Danny Ric better I think he would still be there. Brendan Hartley got the short end of the stick too, yet look how quickly he got picked up by Ferrari F1 and Toyota WEC, they don't employ also-rans. Just to name 2 recent drivers who got shafted. Marko is the instigator of his own demise.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

This is Redbulls biggest problem, a miserable old git letting his emotions dictate his decisions. The number of drivers' careers he has severely damaged is disgraceful

That’s ridiculous. Nobody could accuse him of making emotional decisions.

He makes hard business decisions, certainly not based on emotions. Some mistakes perhaps but generally proven correct. Not always just in driving either, some awful and immature driver personalities too.

Every driver signed to Red Bull knows they are always looking for the next megastar and that F1 competence won’t cut it long-term.

The list of drivers careers he has MADE is long.

Also, notice that those dropped aren’t generally snapped up by other F1 teams. There’s reasons for that. They’re not better than other drivers out there.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Also, notice that those dropped aren’t generally snapped up by other F1 teams. There’s reasons for that. They’re not better than other drivers out there.

Isn't that part of the point though? Laudable though it may be to bring drivers through, how often are they going to find a Vettel or a Ricciardo? The ratio of competent drivers to potential superstars is very much stacked against finding another superstar...

For me, I'd persevere with Albon. I know he goofed yesterday but there's something about the kid that makes me think he might have what it takes.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by peebee2

That’s ridiculous. Nobody could accuse him of making emotional decisions.

He makes hard business decisions, certainly not based on emotions. Some mistakes perhaps but generally proven correct. Not always just in driving either, some awful and immature driver personalities too.

Every driver signed to Red Bull knows they are always looking for the next megastar and that F1 competence won’t cut it long-term.

The list of drivers careers he has MADE is long.

Also, notice that those dropped aren’t generally snapped up by other F1 teams. There’s reasons for that. They’re not better than other drivers out there.

But ALL if that is moot when they keep downgrading in driver quality without any chance for the driver to develop. And if they aren't a similar style to Max they have NO chance with the car.

Also, if other teams aren't picking up your drivers, that's on you for signing them first. They had chances to sign others and chose the chaff they did. The declaration that he's making the good business choice doesn't hold water, there's no one in the wings to replace the previous. Maybe let a driver develop for more than a weekend before sacking him? Or actually be able to scout talent better in junior formulas so your cupboard isn't bare after you've fired everyone.

Also also, Marko is the idiot who was called out for deciding O'Ward is never going to be F1 material in a back marker team in his first event in the RAIN. Yup, that's when I would decide on a driver. He's a moron and has gotten lucky with 2 drivers of how many now? Sorry Ric isn't in Vettel or Verstappen's class, not even close.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

For me, I'd persevere with Albon. I know he goofed yesterday but there's something about the kid that makes me think he might have what it takes.

After today, I stick with this. But I agree with Broadrun about allowing a driver to develop. Kvyat is done (has been for some time IMO) and I suspect Gasly is largely history too (already).

[S griffin]

I seem to remember Vettel only once getting past the first few laps of the first four races of 2008 with STR, so obviously he needed time too. However I agree that those like Vettel, Ricciardo and Max have shown they have made the right choices in the past

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

I reckon the short of it is, neither of the 3 in their pool are likely good enough to be sufficient (strategic) help in next years campaign. If they are as serious about the WDC next year as they say they are, they have to be frank and admit that neither in the RB driver program is gonna cut it as a 2nd driver and they need someone from the outside.


They would rather solve it from within the RB program better I think they have to be realistic rather sooner than later.



Maybe Marko is playing hardball with Hulkenberg to get his salary down?

Agreed.
It's no coincidence that RBR's only WCC wins have come with 1 RB driver + 1 experienced and very good outsider.

[midgetman]

I didn't follow the race, what did Albon do wrong? On the face of it pit lane to fifth looks good.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Aysedasi]

Nothing at all, IMO, other than dumping the car off in qually.