IMSA IMSA : 2019

[TF110]

I don't like it. I'd rather a 1500 mile race than the 1000 mile. I guess it's still an even number so there's that, and it's not 6 hours. I really don't like how they have to run on Friday when that's 'support race' time. The wec as a support race feels wrong but hopefully it's not billed as that.

[Akrapovic]

tbh it's an IMSA event. WEC is the support race. I have no issue with this.

[Lanky Turtle]

I think it's a great move, the 12 Hours of Sebring race week should conclude with the checkered flag for the 12 Hours of Sebring, pretty much as it has since 1952. The WEC is a support race in this instance, even if the cars are faster and the championship more prestigious. It would be like running an F1 race right after the Indy 500.

I'm a little confused about the new pit and paddock setup. MP reports the new pits will be on the left side of the Ulmann straight, which would put them on the other side of the track from the regular paddock. That means all the WEC teams would be setup away from the spectator area unless they build another bridge over there.

[Akrapovic]

If they are building a new pit lane on the other side of the straight, it does suggest this won't be a one-off.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If they are building a new pit lane on the other side of the straight, it does suggest this won't be a one-off.

Very good point.

[RWill2073]

How the new pitlane affects spectating in that area and ease of movement through the paddock area is my concern. If they build some walled off structure that doesn't allow you to wander along the fence on the back straight then I'll be sad. If they put it across the track, all they're affecting is additional parking, and I'm cool with that.

[TF110]

World Championships should not be support races. The fact that the ACO and FIA compromised on this shows me they really wanted to race at Sebring/USA. I'm not just saying the WEC is going to be a support race in terms of when it's taking place, but also the fact that the time it's taking was reserved for other series that DO support IMSA

[fieldodreams79]

The 12 hours of Sebring should always have been included in any "world sportcars championship". Not doing so, you just have an international series, imho, and that's what the WEC will still be.

It was only a matter of time before this was changed and is the best approach for ALL involved. Let's see what comes of it all after 2019, but it'll be a zoo next year! One that I'm very much looking forward to attend!

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by TF110

World Championships should not be support races. The fact that the ACO and FIA compromised on this shows me they really wanted to race at Sebring/USA. I'm not just saying the WEC is going to be a support race in terms of when it's taking place, but also the fact that the time it's taking was reserved for other series that DO support IMSA

Do you not see a problem with a series going to another series' home and prestigious event, and trying to claim headline status? It is extremely arrogant. Sebring and imsa doesn't need the wec race. It's just fine without it. Wec seems to need sebring, though. So, be a support race, or don't come. It really doesn't matter either way for Sebring and the six figures of fans that will always be there.

[carbsmith]

Do you not see a problem with making up things like "trying to to claim headline status"?

Frankly if IMSA is threatened by not having sole ownership of the Sebring weekend it doesn't say much for the series as a whole. The fans are pretty capable of deciding which is the "real" race themselves.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TF110

World Championships should not be support races. The fact that the ACO and FIA compromised on this shows me they really wanted to race at Sebring/USA. I'm not just saying the WEC is going to be a support race in terms of when it's taking place, but also the fact that the time it's taking was reserved for other series that DO support IMSA

A fact in your mind maybe. Maybe, for once, they let logic prevail...?

It's still a win-win for both series and that's all that should matter. It also shows the relationship between the two organizations is much better than often displayed in media publications or especially in fan(boy) forums/comment sections like this one.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Do you not see a problem with a series going to another series' home and prestigious event, and trying to claim headline status? It is extremely arrogant. Sebring and imsa doesn't need the wec race. It's just fine without it. Wec seems to need sebring, though. So, be a support race, or don't come. It really doesn't matter either way for Sebring and the six figures of fans that will always be there.

No-one's tried to "claim headline status" if you co-run with another event. That's called sharing, not 'taking over'. That's arrogance from your part.

It's funny to me how people act as if IMSA doesn't need WEC and is giving them something "for free". Yet, ACO is already giving IMSA these:

1) The rights to utilize the title of Petit Le Mans
2) Co-use of ACO licensed vehicles and classifications
3) Giving multiple Le Mans invites to entries in the series - both automatic and non-automatic - (if that wasn't the case, you would NOT have teams like Corvette Racing still racing full time in IMSA, at least not without running elsewhere full time as well)

They could have taken those away just as easily if they had wanted, but they haven't because they still believe in partnership. Which is why IMSA must also give something to the ACO in return. In not doing so and just doing "their own thing", now that would be one-sided arrogance.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

The 12 hours of Sebring should always have been included in any "world sportcars championship". Not doing so, you just have an international series, imho, and that's what the WEC will still be.

Which is exactly what ACO wanted to do again for 2019, but IMSA refused (as per the words of Scott Atherton in 2017).

Also we can't blame the split after 2012 solely on FIA-ACO part, there are two sides to the story.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No-one's tried to "claim headline status" if you co-run with another event. That's called sharing, not 'taking over'. That's arrogance from your part.

It's funny to me how people act as if IMSA doesn't need WEC and is giving them something "for free". Yet, ACO is already giving IMSA these:

1) The rights to utilize the title of Petit Le Mans
2) Co-use of ACO licensed vehicles and classifications
3) Giving multiple Le Mans invites to entries in the series - both automatic and non-automatic - (if that wasn't the case, you would NOT have teams like Corvette Racing still racing full time in IMSA, at least not without running elsewhere full time as well)

They could have taken those away just as easily if they had wanted, but they haven't because they still believe in partnership. Which is why IMSA must also give something to the ACO in return. In not doing so and just doing "their own thing", now that would be one-sided arrogance.



Which is exactly what ACO wanted to do again for 2019, but IMSA refused (as per the words of Scott Atherton in 2017).

Also we can't blame the split after 2012 solely on FIA-ACO part, there are two sides to the story.

Can you get me a quote or source where he said that? Thx.

In general: it seems some of you/us have a hard time understanding what an agreement means (and how things work once an agreement is put on down on paper).

[August]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Which is exactly what ACO wanted to do again for 2019, but IMSA refused (as per the words of Scott Atherton in 2017).

Also we can't blame the split after 2012 solely on FIA-ACO part, there are two sides to the story.

Wasn't it with the FIA's displeasure of the joint race why the WEC left Sebring after 2012?

If ALMS and Grand-Am had continued separately, I can't see why a joint WEC race would be a problem for the American organizers, esp. as you could see LMP1 teams from the WEC joining the race anyway.

However, after the merger and dropping LMP1 from IMSA competition, it's been quite obvious why IMSA hasn't wanted LMP1s to Sebring. No point in showcasing the difference between the top classes of IMSA and the WEC in one of the series' marquee races. The lack of LMP1s may have hurt Sebring's status, though I'm not sure all current DPi manufacturers would be there if they can't race for overall victories in all races. Perfectly justified protection of their own series. You can blame IMSA for not allowing a joint race, though it would make no sense for them.

As for the 2019 event, IMSA's actions surely look dubious in how they've been requesting format changes after the initially announced double 12 plan. Although the first change ensured there's only one Sebring 12h, the longer distance and more advanced prototypes in the 1,500mi race could have compromised the 12h's prestige. I'm fine with IMSA protecting the status of the 12h race, even as a part of the less prestigious series.

I just hope the ACO and IMSA could agree on the rules of the future top class to see the same top-class prototypes running in both series. That being said, I'm skeptical about a joint race at Sebring in the near future. IMSA and the WEC have different race procedures, IMSA has a single tire supplier for all classes but GTLM, and the merged grid would be oversubscribed. IMSA surely wouldn't drop GTD with all the OEMs represented there, and I'm not sure the WEC would drop GTE-Am. More likely, if only the LMP1/DPi regs got aligned, we could see LMP1 teams from the WEC joining IMSA for Sebring (and possibly Daytona and Petit). Which would still be better than separate IMSA and WEC races.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Can you get me a quote or source where he said that? Thx.

http://www.radiolemans.co/2017/09/06...12-episode-33/

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Do you not see a problem with making up things like "trying to to claim headline status"?

Frankly if IMSA is threatened by not having sole ownership of the Sebring weekend it doesn't say much for the series as a whole. The fans are pretty capable of deciding which is the "real" race themselves.

Originally Posted by Chiana

No-one's tried to "claim headline status" if you co-run with another event. That's called sharing, not 'taking over'. That's arrogance from your part.

It's funny to me how people act as if IMSA doesn't need WEC and is giving them something "for free". Yet, ACO is already giving IMSA these:

1) The rights to utilize the title of Petit Le Mans
2) Co-use of ACO licensed vehicles and classifications
3) Giving multiple Le Mans invites to entries in the series - both automatic and non-automatic - (if that wasn't the case, you would NOT have teams like Corvette Racing still racing full time in IMSA, at least not without running elsewhere full time as well)

They could have taken those away just as easily if they had wanted, but they haven't because they still believe in partnership. Which is why IMSA must also give something to the ACO in return. In not doing so and just doing "their own thing", now that would be one-sided arrogance.


Which is exactly what ACO wanted to do again for 2019, but IMSA refused (as per the words of Scott Atherton in 2017).

Also we can't blame the split after 2012 solely on FIA-ACO part, there are two sides to the story.

Ok, if no one is "trying to claim headline status, then comments like this below, make no sense.

Originally Posted by TF110

World Championships should not be support races. The fact that the ACO and FIA compromised on this shows me they really wanted to race at Sebring/USA. I'm not just saying the WEC is going to be a support race in terms of when it's taking place, but also the fact that the time it's taking was reserved for other series that DO support IMSA

There should be no one upset with the wec racing on Friday, because apparently no one cares about "headline status".

Imsa is sharing their weekend with the wec. A Friday race makes the most sense in keeping with the usual schedule. It also means imsa sacrifices track time for support races.

And isn't it arrogant to always point out how the aco could always take stuff away at any time if imsa doesn't appease them...?

I never understood why anyone wanted a race to begin in the middle of the night anyway. Look at overhead shots of sebring after the race is over. A line of headlights headed toward the exit is plain as day. Why would wec want that image during the start of their race? Or of campers being broken down, packed up and leaving during the Sunday morning to afternoon part of the race? Would have looked sad. At least on Friday, everything is all set up, looking great, people are coming in, not leaving. Much better imaging for a "world championship".

Back to one side easily pulling stuff away from the other, I guess nascar could have kept wec out of tracks they partner with or own, severely limiting U.S. options for wec, making the "world" part of the title less legitimate. Isn't there some rule they have to go to enough countries?

[Akrapovic]

We've gone from 6 hours of COTA to 8 hours of Sebring and people still aren't happy.

Every silver lining has a cloud.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Which is exactly what ACO wanted to do again for 2019, but IMSA refused (as per the words of Scott Atherton in 2017).

WEC needs Sebring more than Sebring / IMSA need the WEC right now. I think what they've come up with is good for motor sports in general so I'm pleased.

Also we can't blame the split after 2012 solely on FIA-ACO part, there are two sides to the story.

Yeah, I didn't say any of that and not sure why you brought that up. Sebring was excluded. Why? I dont care and don't see the need in beating that dead horse anymore.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Maybe because the 2012 combined event was a mess.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Maybe because the 2012 combined event was a mess.

Was a really enjoyable race as a fan who was there.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

We've gone from 6 hours of COTA to 8 hours of Sebring and people still aren't happy.

Every silver lining has a cloud.

I'm not happy, because I most likely won't be there.
Was targeting a 2020 return. Oh well...

I will say this, if I was there, I would be heading back to the hotel around the the beginning of the wec race if it was after the 12 hours of Sebring. If I was there and it was on Friday, I would be by the fence the entire race. Seems like a no brainer that this is the best option.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Ok, if no one is "trying to claim headline status, then comments like this below, make no sense.



There should be no one upset with the wec racing on Friday, because apparently no one cares about "headline status".

Imsa is sharing their weekend with the wec. A Friday race makes the most sense in keeping with the usual schedule. It also means imsa sacrifices track time for support races.

And isn't it arrogant to always point out how the aco could always take stuff away at any time if imsa doesn't appease them...?

I never understood why anyone wanted a race to begin in the middle of the night anyway. Look at overhead shots of sebring after the race is over. A line of headlights headed toward the exit is plain as day. Why would wec want that image during the start of their race? Or of campers being broken down, packed up and leaving during the Sunday morning to afternoon part of the race? Would have looked sad. At least on Friday, everything is all set up, looking great, people are coming in, not leaving. Much better imaging for a "world championship".

Back to one side easily pulling stuff away from the other, I guess nascar could have kept wec out of tracks they partner with or own, severely limiting U.S. options for wec, making the "world" part of the title less legitimate. Isn't there some rule they have to go to enough countries?

Nascar is not a sportscar series, IMSA is. IMSA runs rules (cars) that are mandated by the ACO and FIA. They are headlining Sebring, not sure why you say I'm feeling like the WEC should, I just said they shouldn't play second fiddle to a local series with entries that can (and do) partake in both series. That'd almost be like the wec racing the 6hrs of Spa before the elms round takes place. Sure the 12hrs of Sebring has a historic name to it and it's taken place for decades, but that doesn't mean it can't share the spotlight. I said the wec moved to the day support races take place because it's true.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TF110

Nascar is not a sportscar series, IMSA is. IMSA runs rules (cars) that are mandated by the ACO and FIA. They are headlining Sebring, not sure why you say I'm feeling like the WEC should, I just said they shouldn't play second fiddle to a local series with entries that can (and do) partake in both series. That'd almost be like the wec racing the 6hrs of Spa before the elms round takes place. Sure the 12hrs of Sebring has a historic name to it and it's taken place for decades, but that doesn't mean it can't share the spotlight. I said the wec moved to the day support races take place because it's true.

"Local series," as in the Central Florida Region SCCA?

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by TF110

Nascar is not a sportscar series, IMSA is. IMSA runs rules (cars) that are mandated by the ACO and FIA. They are headlining Sebring, not sure why you say I'm feeling like the WEC should, I just said they shouldn't play second fiddle to a local series with entries that can (and do) partake in both series. That'd almost be like the wec racing the 6hrs of Spa before the elms round takes place. Sure the 12hrs of Sebring has a historic name to it and it's taken place for decades, but that doesn't mean it can't share the spotlight. I said the wec moved to the day support races take place because it's true.

So, who says wec are playing second fiddle? If that is your opinion, then what would fix it? Wec having the last race of the weekend? So imsa could play second fiddle in their own marque event? You can't have it both ways. Nobody is saying wec is second fiddle, or a support race, except "fans" that are unhappy with a wec race at Sebring for some reason.

And NASCAR owns a lot of tracks around America, or has partnerships they could lean on to keep them from scheduling wec at a venue if they chose to be petty, as wec would be by taking away the use of the petit le mans name. That would severely limit options for wec in America, making that whole "world championship" title harder to justify. It is just weird that anyone thinks it is justifiable for wec to hold stuff like that over imsa for leverage, but then not think it's justifiable for imsa to exercise it's hold on a premier event. And only to the extent that they want the 12 hours to he the weekend ender, apparently and rightly. No one has used the term support race except people inexplicably complaining about a freaking awesome week of racing at a historic track. Jeez....

[Akrapovic]

IMSA is a National/"local" series, but I don't see why that's an issue. Sebring 12 Hours is an IMSA event. Even if F1 went there (which would be hilarious), it should remain an IMSA event. WEC is tagging onto the IMSA event. And that's just fine.