Electronic Ignition.. Yes or No!

[esper]

good posts but there are to vital differences which are the use of different material and the use of different technical systems.
And the use of electronic ignition is a different system as used in those days and can clearly give an advance. I don't think an electronic ignition with ecu (do i write this correct ) mapped on the rolling road is not good for the sport. Then buy this GT3, they map (map) engines better in Weissach then wherever in Europe so just stick to the points ignition if you race historics.
A MAllory is a perfect replacement if converted to single points and won't give you an advance only in reliability ofcourse.

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

to be specific JFW and Roger want electronic as points on a twin cam are a ******* to get at . . . I want points because they're a doddle for me and it reins in a whisker of the power advantage

Zef, I didn't say I want electronic. Did I? I didn't vote and won't.

[JFW]

You can speak for me Zef,

I think agreed approved period non mapped systems or ignitors are the realistic and practical solution.

I love running my car on points it gives me the same sensation as my best hair shirt.

Still clung on the the island Zef, those winds looked quite impressive on the news............

[terence]

As you say JFW,if it were allowed,then it could only be something that did away with the offending parts,like Luminition or something similar.It has to be approved and policed.Nothing like whats being widely used on quite a few cars at present,little box'es strapped behind dashboards out of view.It would also be necasary for the unit to be in full view in the engine bay.

[zefarelly]

no you didn't Roger, but you'll agree with the comment surely? contactless would be an irritating hassle removed.

I'll reiterate my original comment/opinion, contactless would make sense, but most certainly not any sort of programmable electronic, ie machanical advance only, but given the current climate of people taking a mile without being given an inch I'd like to see some more general imnprovements in standards of scrutineering and preparation before concessions are made to competitors who clearly take the ****

pre 66 saloons (App K) are about 15% faster than 10 years ago, but the rules haven't changed. thats bordering on F1 developement rates

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by JFW

I love running my car on points it gives me the same sensation as my best hair shirt.

Still clung on the the island Zef, those winds looked quite impressive on the news............

the winds of change J?

we're fine down here its only septics and Antipodeans that build their houses out of sticks and tin and get them blown away

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, good post Andy B.

Agreed, not programmable so that would really preclude anything other than the Aldon Ignitor type of system. I'm thinking of running that on my pre '65 MGB which runs a B&G non vacuum distributor (not sure if that was original comp spec though).

However, I do think for the benefit of all, a more pragmatic approach would be good. This and possibly other non contentious changes, would then reduce the areas of cheating to a level where it would be easier for a scrutineer to legislate.

[GORDON STREETER]

I'm reliably informed that you can run an ignition ecu from a single wire from a normal points type dizzy ! (but contactless). In any case I have seen multiplex type wiring used that looks like a single wire anyway. As for fitting points in a twink, agreed they ain't as easy as a non crossflow engine but I can fit a set in an Elan in about 5 mins .

[zefarelly]

agreed, legitimise the sensible things and police the crazy stuff

we'll never stop cheating, but I really strugle to see the justification for 'well he's got it so I can too' attitude

[zefarelly]

it takes five minutes to point out where and what a distributor is to some people

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

As for fitting points in a twink, agreed they ain't as easy as a non crossflow engine but I can fit a set in an Elan in about 5 mins .

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

In any case I have seen multiplex type wiring used that looks like a single wire anyway..

like that BT multicore type stuff, oops, cats out again
the only challenge there is gettiing it all in the bellhousing without hitting the flywheel

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by esper

And the use of electronic ignition is a different system as used in those days and can clearly give an advance. I don't think an electronic ignition with ecu (do i write this correct ) mapped on the rolling road is good for the sport.

I don't think anyone on here has suggested that would be acceptable.

And .... do I note a strong degree of consensus breaking out here?

[Peter Mallett]

Yes John.

Seems that way, although on reflection allowing EI on the basis that it can't be policed is rather similar to the FIA allowing traction control because you can't stop the teams from using it. So on reflection and bearing that in mind I could reverse my previous stance, because I don't like Max Mosley.

Carry on.

[Andy Bacon]

Mapped ignitions are irrelevent to this issue: you can still run one (illegally) from a points system, remember the points are merely a switch, the same as the inductor or photocell.

[zefarelly]

so the only way we're going to resolve this then is to all run diesel

switching is one thing, points have a natural limit of around 9k which is more than enough IMO, (this is afterall supposed to be a hobby sport echoing history not technological ground breaking reinvention, although you'd be more than justified in thinking otherwise)

mechanical advance/retard control vs electronic/programmable is another. . . if we go that route for historics we may as well have fuel injected throttle bodies shaped like DCOE's, I'm sure they exist already anyway!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

no you didn't Roger, but you'll agree with the comment surely? contactless would be an irritating hassle removed.

Agreed. I thought I'd gone mad.......

[zefarelly]

the pills are working then

[Peter Mallett]

I think we have a concensus here which is based on logic and common sense, however what about this then?

I know this has been touched on elsewhere but in the debate about original versus modified what would we need to do if the greenies made it a rule that no racing unless on bio fuels? (FWIW I think bio fuels are a cop out because you either grow fuel or food, not both). However the fuel injection/throttle bodies etc. would probably be needed plus the variable timing etc. This would turn the whole thing into silhuette racing which we don't want.

[terence]

This is all fairly easy,IF electronic were allowed,then if the FIA can "Approve" Rain lights,then surely it not beyond the wit of man to do the same on electronic points replacement.At the moment ,nothing to report on the new points/condensor situation,I hope that this is not a total waste of money/time effort as regards the policing of electro systems though,after-all we should only go with one system or the other. As for programable,that is a complete no no,people are /have been using that for years.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

This would turn the whole thing into silhuette racing which we don't want.

Silhouette ! my wife said see her for extra lessons after school .
she's a stickler for English grammar (she did say she would go easy on you)

[terence]

Leather and canes eh! And besides,it's the sPeL CheKA thats gon rong

[esper]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Silhouette ! my wife said see her for extra lessons after school .
she's a stickler for English grammar (she did say she would go easy on you)

don't get the spark?

[terence]

I was over at Snett yesterday,still quite a few funny box'es attached to coils.!

[esper]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I was over at Snett yesterday,still quite a few funny box'es attached to coils.!

5.39 ! those boxes kept you awake? probably revlimiters! Do think the ban on those in historic racing is not the way to get equal legal cars.

[terence]

Whatever is legal and used by everyone,thats how it should be Esper.