Turn 8 @ Adelaide, What do we do now??

[Senna05]

I think the best way to do this is push the apex further in - not tightening the corner, but WIDENING the corner significantly.

In 100% honesty, AND with 100% sensitivity intended, what if we changed EVERY part of a track in world motorsport where a driver had tragically lost their life, how many circuits would have required changes?

Anywhere where you have velocity and a car full of components, a momentum change and a fragile human body inside of the component, there is a chance for a failure and injury. Do we eliminate Tyres after Mansel's incident in 86 and the Top Gear accident - a tyre failure could be bad!

Sensible and thoughtfull processes need to be undertaken here to see if a realistic change can be made, one that is cost effective, safe, and good for the drivers and viewers. If no change is needed, so be it. There are people out there who have degree's and diploma's in this sorta stuff - let's see what they come up wiht.

[Taz Q2]

I would not like to see the knee jerk reaction from your partner & children if you were to be taken in an accident squirrel, thats terrible.

Have a look at the Gold Coast track, every fast situation has run off area to get drivers out of trouble if they make a mistake, there is not a corner that im aware of ( & please correct me if im wrong ) that would attain the speeds that Adelaide has thus inducing the frontal impact that has been witnessed last weekend in the event of an error or accident, the front straight has braking before the chicane, the back straight has braking before the chicane & enough time in both areas to go straight ahead if someone is in trouble.

Having been raised in the town that is the home of v8 racing in this country i also beleive the same must be done to reid park at the top of the mount as it was to skyline, with the wall being shifted back & run off area to get a driver out of trouble, it is just not good enough any more to allow death in motorsport & have it acceptable, for blippin sake they dont allow death in boxing anymore & we race a motorcar, it's just ludicrus.

After having watched Casey Mears crash the other morning in nascar, & watch him get out of the Car of Tommorrow & walk away, much to my disbelief, there is no question that we need to improve the safety standards of motor racing in this country & regard human life as much as the Americans do, it's not acceptable in that country for someone to die racing so why should it be anywhere else.

To improve safety will never ever be knee jerk when human life is at stake.

[garbo6]

If you were worried that Mears wouldn't have gotten out of his COT car unscathed then you need to watch far more motorsport, he spun, take some hard contact to the front of his car, then had the gentlest rollover I've seen in NASCAR. Certainly nothing to be worried about.

The safety I'd want V8 Supercars to live up to would be a driver escaping relatively unscathed from a similar incident to that which Jeff Fuller suffered at Kentucky in the NASCAR Busch Series. I can't reminder the amount of G's this crash registered, but it was either the highest or 2nd highest a NASCAR crash has recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5sVheIcffM

Amazingly, he never lost consciousness but the car's roof had to be cut off to extract him. He was taken to the hospital to be treated for smoke inhalation and (surprisingly, considering the heavy amount of damage to his car) a broken wrist and finger. He was released the next day.

[BeeJ]

Just trying to work out where the accident happened. Looking at this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Circuit_Adelaide.png is it the corner labled as 9 Speedstick Corner ?

[wills]

The Gold Coast track is horrible imo, Mickey Mouse beyond belief. Its all good focusing on safety but there still has to be a place for fast corners with no room for error or else the quality of races will suffer. For those who deny this fact watch F1. I sure don't want turn 8 to change in its characteristics(6th gear thread the needle), I'd rather see safer barriers or stronger chassis. Despite the tragedy of Cooper the Clipsal 500 has been one of the better races I've seen in recent V8 Supercars.

[Axeman444]

pull the armco off the inside of the corner, widen the wall back on the outside, put in a SAFER barrier on the outside, ripple strip on the exit, penalise anyone who hops the kerb or the ripple strip excessively.

my 2 cents...

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by BeeJ

Just trying to work out where the accident happened. Looking at this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Circuit_Adelaide.png is it the corner labled as 9 Speedstick Corner ?

It says 2006, but i don't remember that setup in 06.

Bring on that F1 track!

[madman16]

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Yes you have. You'd lose a fast, challenging and unique corner. What do people not understand about that?

That's the point i'm trying to make. If you take that out, it must be replaced with something that has chance for overtaking or something otherwise it just becomes like 99% of the other corners on racetracks around the world.

With a kink before a slow corner i don't see much overtaking happening.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by garbo6

The safety I'd want V8 Supercars to live up to would be a driver escaping relatively unscathed from a similar incident to that which Jeff Fuller suffered at Kentucky in the NASCAR Busch Series. I can't reminder the amount of G's this

Slightly off topic, is that the same Jeff Fuller who drove the 1991/92 Australian NASCAR Championship in the #90 American Nastrack car?

[madman16]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Have a look at the Gold Coast track, every fast situation has run off area to get drivers out of trouble if they make a mistake, there is not a corner that im aware of ( & please correct me if im wrong ) that would attain the speeds that Adelaide has thus inducing the frontal impact that has been witnessed last weekend in the event of an error or accident, the front straight has braking before the chicane, the back straight has braking before the chicane & enough time in both areas to go straight ahead if someone is in trouble.

To improve safety will never ever be knee jerk when human life is at stake.

The only place at GC would be the back chicane where Bright, Andretti and a few others have met an early exit from races. There has been some fairly big ones there over the years. I know Bright's was a bit of different circumstances but still.

I'm all for the safety improvements and it's a shame that this has to happen for the safety to come but i know i don't want to see a great track butchered because they rushed with their solution. IMO some of the great F1 circuits are crap now because the simplest solution was to just put slowish s-bends everywhere

[theugsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

To improve safety will never ever be knee jerk when human life is at stake.

Remember when this discussion happens - before you want to take away something integral to the sport - that racing drivers CHOOSE to race cars. Because their passion outweighs the risks of injury or death. Cooper knew that the potential consequences were there.

Look at the Manx TT. It's a 60 km circuit. The riders don't race there because they want to get paid, they race because they love racing and the glory of winning on one of the toughest circuits in the world.


I suppose an analogy to chicaning every single corner that requires 100% commitment from the driver is like building an escalator to the top of Mt Everest. You might reach the Summit but the challenge isn't there.

[dmcl]

its slightly OT, but still relevant to this one.
In the past, PVDA has been reknowned for his ability as a "thread killer", this time however, 160 replies and still going strong, well done knakkers.

[garbo6]

Originally Posted by racer69

Slightly off topic, is that the same Jeff Fuller who drove the 1991/92 Australian NASCAR Championship in the #90 American Nastrack car?

Can't find confirmation of that but from a fan site

# Jeff is the only NASCAR driver to win two events in one day on two different continents. (Martinsville and Australia)

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

racing drivers CHOOSE to race cars. Because their passion outweighs the risks of injury or death. Cooper knew that the potential consequences were there.

A reasonable point, but with a huge caveat. You quote the Manx TT as an example, but that's not a fair comparison. It's a stand alone event, not part of a championship, so anyone going there does so as a direct choice to attend that venue. Adelaide is part of a particular type and style of racing - if you want a career in Australian motorsport, you've got to accept the vehicles and venues. You can't avoid a particular circuit.

One of the aerial camera shots on the TV coverage showed the inside barrier more clearly than I've seen before. I hadn't understood the angle of it and the closeness to the track. I don't think I've seen a more unnecessary piece of circuit furniture anywhere, and a minor touch there is just asking to pitch a car into the outside wall. Just taking that away must be a major improvement.

[wills]

Actually riders who go to the Isle of Mann compete in the Irish road racing championship as well as other races on dangerous tracks such as the North West 200 and Macau.

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Yes you have. You'd lose a fast, challenging and unique corner. What do people not understand about that?

What don't you understand about the fact that one has and more may die at this corner unless it's slowed down? Have you ever raced a car? What makes you so qualified to make such bold statements? Are you one of those people who goes to a race meeting to see the crashes and consider injured/killed drivers as collateral damage?

I thought the possible change to the racing line proposed by F J Nedos had a lot to gain and nothing to lose as there is no passing at turn 8 anyway and the run off area looked far enough from the racing line to be of real value.

[mmciau]

Turn 8. FJ NEDOS kindly overlayed my thoughts on the tyre wall onto his images posted on this thread. This allows for the "bulging" of the outer wall after the apex of the turn and the construction of a "tear-drop" tyre wall in front of the "bulged" outer wall.l

Mike McInerney

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21694538@N07/2303090270/

[wills]

That plan gets my vote as the characteristic of the corner is retained but allows for those who really get it wrong to stand a safer impact with the tyres.

[madman16]

Not to take the focus off of Turn 8 at all. But i thought that Coopers crash didn't really look any worse than some of the others (Seton, Rat, Courtney etc) over the years. Maybe the fact that his seat broke is what they should be focusing on??????

[mac]

I had some good looks at Turn 8 on the tape last night, from onboard cameras and the chopper.

I really don't think there is anything wrong with the corner...

EXCEPT FOR THE ARMCO ON THE APEX!!!!

There is grass behind it and a perfectly good kerb - if the armco wasn't there there is absolutely no way drivers could cut it. It is just a normal corner.

Just get rid of the armco - it is totally pointless and makes the corner far more dangerous than it needs to be.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Turn 8. FJ NEDOS kindly overlayed my thoughts on the tyre wall onto his images posted on this thread. This allows for the "bulging" of the outer wall after the apex of the turn and the construction of a "tear-drop" tyre wall in front of the "bulged" outer wall.l

Mike McInerney

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21694538@N07/2303090270/

I thought the same thing would be a good idea, but apprently theres not enough room for it. When the track is setup, thats an access road for residents.

[theugsquirrel]

Originally Posted by David Towe

What don't you understand about the fact that one has and more may die at this corner unless it's slowed down? Have you ever raced a car? What makes you so qualified to make such bold statements? Are you one of those people who goes to a race meeting to see the crashes and consider injured/killed drivers as collateral damage?

Slowing the corner down isn't necessary. A SAFER barrier will do instead of trying to make Adelaide more like any other street circuit. No I have not raced a car. I am qualified to make a bold statement because I am a motorsport fan and I am entitled to my opinion. No, I am not one who goes to races to see people crash. But I don't watch racing to see challenging, spectacular corners removed. The great thing about Turn 8 is that there is no margin for error, it makes it more exciting for the viewer. It's one of the reasons tracks like Adelaide are better than tracks like Winton.

I thought the possible change to the racing line proposed by F J Nedos had a lot to gain and nothing to lose as there is no passing at turn 8 anyway and the run off area looked far enough from the racing line to be of real value.

A SAFER barrier will do.

[Wood-duck]

A Safer barrier......?????

When a Car comes in and hits something a 200+ Kp/h it wouldnt really matter what sort of barrier it was. It is still gonna hurt !!!

According to AVESCO - the barrier is up to "FIA Standard". I guess that means it ain't gettin' any safer.... But then again, AVESCO reckon a lot of things....

Let's get real about this. The changes to turn 8 was a knee-jerk reaction to Brad Jones' topple over. There was nothing really wrong with the corner in it's original spec save for the tyre bundles on the exit. The accidents that occured in that format were not as bad as those that have occured since...

Since it's change in 2002, it has consumed car after car after car. V8 people talk about cost cutting, and this corner is the most expensive corner in V8 racing....if you add up the accidents there over the years - millions of dollars spent.

This corner would be great at a Phillp island or similar where the runoff area is adequate. With no run-off it has proven that it can injure, and indeed kill.

This is justification enough for a change....

I think the original format with an additional chicane sequence on the entry should do the job. And it will create an additional passing zone... It will be spectacular like the beach front chicane at Indy, which is real street racing stuff.

Leave the mega high speed turns for the circuits with the correct run off. If you want see the cars at these speeds, go to Phillip Island, not Adelaide.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

According to AVESCO - the barrier is up to "FIA Standard". I guess that means it ain't gettin' any safer.... But then again, AVESCO reckon a lot of things....

and with any standards, they are usually the minimum requirement. Just because the acronym 'FIA' is in the front does not mean it is the top standard.

[JustASupporter]

Originally Posted by madman16

Not to take the focus off of Turn 8 at all. But i thought that Coopers crash didn't really look any worse than some of the others (Seton, Rat, Courtney etc) over the years. Maybe the fact that his seat broke is what they should be focusing on??????

I think the problem was that he hit the wall directly side on, and the safety of the cars is more for nose to tail accidents. Look at Dumbrells accident, he hits it at a 45 degree angle and I believe that more "crumple" in the front section of the car allowed Dumbrell to walk away.