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6 May 2017, 22:06 (Ref:3731763) | #151 | ||
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And yet when 15 years ago Audi Sport were doing the same in the ALMS, the amount of complaining was nowhere near what it is now...
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6 May 2017, 22:09 (Ref:3731765) | #152 | ||
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There's no need for that. I don't do that either.
I do. You seem to think I'm complaining about the race finishes. I'm not. Like I explained before, I have an issue with the Cadillac dominating pretty much everything. As a better car;, better team, better drivers, I can accept that they win more often than not. However, just looking at the practice and qualifying sessions in an ideal world - or a BoP-ed world, everything should even out a bit there and then. Not the case. I have no idea how they (try to) BoP the different cars. Back in the beginning of the GT3 days, the purpose of the BoP was to make sure every single car was capable of doing the same laptime. That's not something we see here, do we? IIRC in GT3 all cars were tested by a designated driver (don't recall his name, sorry) to make sure the BoP was right and the achieved laptimes were comparable. |
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6 May 2017, 22:20 (Ref:3731770) | #153 | |
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Consistent car
Consistent drivers Consistent Team They have it all right now. |
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6 May 2017, 22:22 (Ref:3731772) | #154 | ||
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Well, Maelochs summed it up perfectly. But just to put a punctuation on this:
Quote:
Last edited by RWill2073; 6 May 2017 at 22:28. |
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6 May 2017, 22:39 (Ref:3731777) | #155 | ||
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Uhm, that there is never anything else than a Cadillac on top?
-- Do you honestly think if WTR were to swap their Caddilac for a Riley-Gibson, a Mazda or a Ligier-Gibson that would still be able to top the practice sessions and put the thing on pole? If the cars are all equally balanced then the answer would be: Of course, they would. Well, I think not. Last edited by gert; 6 May 2017 at 22:50. |
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6 May 2017, 22:57 (Ref:3731780) | #156 | |||
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Quote:
The same Honda engined teams and the same Chevrolet engined teams run up front and the same run in the back. Why do you think that is? What's your fix for that? When does it stop? The cream rises to the top. As it should in sport; as it should in life. |
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"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..." jimclark |
6 May 2017, 23:07 (Ref:3731781) | #157 | ||
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That's not really a good comparison as you are comparing teams/drivers and not the cars then.
BTW: the two first races were won by a small team (Coyne) and a midfield team (Schmidt/Petersen) I'm not saying BoP is a fair way to go racing, I don't even like it, but I strongly disagree when people say everything is perfectly balanced when it is the same car manufacturer that dominates almost every (not all) session at all the different racetracks so far. F1 is also not balanced (and IMO there is no need to do so), but at least it doesn't pretend to be. |
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6 May 2017, 23:33 (Ref:3731786) | #158 | |||
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Quote:
Solution: Follow another venue. That's what I do. I just popped in here because I love all racing, 'just prefeer some over others. 'Am watchin, ARCA and IMSA as we type..... |
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"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..." jimclark |
7 May 2017, 00:19 (Ref:3731796) | #159 | |
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I feel like some of the same people were trying to tell us how much better IMSA would be than other prototype championships are also the ones saying how BoP isn't a problem because actually all of the teams are just terrible.
Looking at even just the "Cadillac Cup" results it seems like Action Express wasn't particularly prepared for running an LMP2 car instead of a tube framer, while WTR is in the Indianapolis area where they can easily hire people from IndyCar and other high tech racing. I think you should probably expect ESM to be closer to WTR than AXR considering. |
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7 May 2017, 00:35 (Ref:3731799) | #160 | ||
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Quote:
They Should have the necessary funding. They have Ryan Dalziel who I put as one of the top-rank drivers in the series (in that bracket where saying "XX is better than YY" is meaningless because so much depends on car, team, and circumstance.) I don't think Dalziel on a good day gives anything away to any of the other top-rank drivers. ESM though has never really nailed the prep and perform thing. They always seem a bit ragged. And this year they came in late and unprepared. Obviously the Nissan has what it takes, if the crew can learn how to make it work and keep it from burning up. As far as better than AXR? AXR won the championship three years running. They are a Good team. They pay attention to detail, don't make stupid errors, don't break down a lot. Attention to detail plus good drivers plus good engineers plus good crew. I Wish ESM was as thorough as AXR. |
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7 May 2017, 01:44 (Ref:3731804) | #161 | |
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Has Esm ever really been a top quality team? They're good, good enough to win. But I can't remember them ever being a great team.
To carbsmith: I also remember the same people saying a team that couldn't win in the wec being a top team in imsa was a sign of weakness for imsa now complaining that that same team should be competing but isn't proving up to it yet... |
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7 May 2017, 05:00 (Ref:3731830) | #162 | ||
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this thread is hilarious.
i love that one post thats saying that if the BoP works correctly then there'd be a different winner every round. that's just silly to think. what would that person say if every car was taken to la doux and balanced like a GT3 car, yet the same teams kept winning? |
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7 May 2017, 05:14 (Ref:3731836) | #163 | ||
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Boring race on a boring track,tough to watch all the clear track limit violations and cars pushing eachother wide because they can.for the second race now The gtlm race has distroyed itself in the first lap giving the guaranteed win to corvette.really glad I decided to wait for the tape delay and enjoy my day with the wife and baby instead of chasing streams all morning.....
As for WTR,love to hate them but can't just because they are good,like the damn New England Patriots. |
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7 May 2017, 05:48 (Ref:3731843) | #164 | ||
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7 May 2017, 06:49 (Ref:3731867) | #165 | ||
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I don't follow WeatherTech closely enough to fully understand BoP, I just know that WTR looks like they're running in a different/faster class than the rest. It's pretty dull, and made more so by losing the Ganassi team to GTLM. I had high hopes for this new era in IMSA, but so far this season has been dreadful. |
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7 May 2017, 09:26 (Ref:3731892) | #166 | ||
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CanAmMan |
7 May 2017, 14:28 (Ref:3731954) | #167 | ||
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If you don't want cars to use it, don't pave it.
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7 May 2017, 15:00 (Ref:3731964) | #168 | ||
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7 May 2017, 15:02 (Ref:3731966) | #169 | |
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Agreed. If they insist on tarmac for safety then it should be separated by a grass strip to stop abuse. The policing of track limits was worthless - cars were using the red tarmac everywhere, including over the apex of corners. COTA and Paul Ricard are the worst 2 circuits in the world for track limits, not only on exits but on apex as well.
It was probably made worse when you come from watching 6 hours at Spa and then immediately COTA starts. Not the best combination for IMSA this weekend. But the time will come when we get 6 hours of Bahrain or China with Road Atlanta straight afterwards, so it'll flip round too. |
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7 May 2017, 15:14 (Ref:3731970) | #170 | ||
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I agree wholeheartedly, but while bikes (particularly MotoGP) are an option at a circuit then this will never happen. Even the grass/gravel verge will be seen as too much (see Silverstone for a high-profile example). Laguna Seca gets away with it for its generally lower speeds and for having no space around the track to concrete over.
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BoP is democracy for racing. |
7 May 2017, 16:32 (Ref:3731983) | #171 | |||
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Quote:
Now with that said...I agree with many points already noted: Cadillac dpi has the most testing. Among the cadillac teams WTR has the better drivers ergo they are the cream of the class. Also, in the IMSA P class, it's a combination of Pro-am teams vs Pro-pro which you can never balance. That leaves me to say this: ESMs car has the potential to go toe-to-toe with the Caddies. The drivers with the exception of Ed Brown are no scrubs either. If by the middle of 2018 (plenty of time to get the car tested and sorted yeah?) the ESM is still not in the same class as the Cadillac, then my mind will be questioning the performance balancing ever more |
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7 May 2017, 16:50 (Ref:3731987) | #172 | |||
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk |
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7 May 2017, 16:59 (Ref:3731991) | #173 | |
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I think last year Oak Racing was involved in running the ESM team. Dont know what is going on now.
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7 May 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3732051) | #174 | |||
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It is especially there that a perfect BoP would show variety in the results. Ah, we Europeans have Paul Ricard. That's even worse. And F1 has chosen THAT track to run the GP of France on. |
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7 May 2017, 23:51 (Ref:3732061) | #175 | |||
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