Oulton

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by RS67

Engine failure, something fell from beneath the car just before he pulled off.

When he took to the grass to avoid a spinning Matt the uneven surface ripped an oil line I believe. I was told the sump, but if it was the sump we'd have had a load of oil down well before we did, would we not?

Thankfully there wasn't a pile up.

Robbed of a possible Neal/ Plato battle of days gone by though. I reckon the Honda would have prevailed...

[yellowbeard]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I was told the sump, but if it was the sump we'd have had a load of oil down well before we did, would we not?

They probably use a dry sump system, so it'd just be a steady stream from the oil pump(s)

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Did anyone else get the impression from Dan Cammish R2 interview that he seemed to imply he had worked something out about what WSR/BMW were doing for their advantage?

I though that too. One thing I noticed from the onboard of the pole lap by Colin was that he seemed to be getting on full throttle very early for a rear wheel drive car so might be something to do with a degree of rear wheel steer to rotate the car?

[btccbloke]

https://twitter.com/BTCC/status/1145343015466221568

"Having now been sort of fully behind it, in the wake of it, i know what it is now and i can go away and complain"

Suggests there is something about the BMW he doesnt think is fully legal? or at least not in the spirit of the competition?

[porsche962fan]

in other interview he says

I can see where the performance is , it's not in the driver, it's not in car setup , it's in one thing only and I've seen it so until we get a handle of that I'm not really sure how we can step up

[Heavyd123]

Anyone got any ideas as to what it can be then?

[JDMROB]

I was under the impression he means the sheer straight line speed of the thing?

As mentioned above though the onboard shows Colin on the power very early with little wheelspin or rear end traction loss. Could they be running some sort of fancy diff?

[btccbloke]

The rear wheel steer that was mentioned is certainly something you would see staring at the back of a BMW for 2 races. Although to be honest I was wondering when he gave the interview if it was some sort of variable ride height.

That second quote is quite interesting, Dan has "seen it" and that suggests until the other teams work out how to do "it" they will be playing catch up.

I know people will say BMW/WSR have just done a fantastic job and Turks and AJ are 2 of the best drivers out there, but the performance levels we are seeing are just not normal, to be so dominant with full ballast and irrespective of tyre choice. Although theres a few issues with teams (Speedworks new car, Powermaxed new drivers, etc etc) I just cant buy into the other 10 or so teams all going backwards over winter.

[Sodemo]

If there were suspicions the car was illegal or suspect, why not just protest it?

[bella]

it might not be illegal. they may have just found a loophole in the rules and are exploiting it. so they would need to protest it on the grounds of it not being in the spirit of the regs if there’s a clause in either sporting or technical regs allowing them to?

[S griffin]

Enjoyed the racing at Oulton. Yet another domination of the BMW 3 series, but this is no different from 2011 when Honda won at every meeting. As Tim Harvey said it's up to others to catch up. Colin is on the top of his game too. As is AJ. And Oliphant is slowly getting there

Jake Hill certainly deserved that penalty. He's good enough to win, but that was a horrible misjudgment he made, especially as Neal passed him cleanly. It ruined Neal's race and also took out Tingram and Plato and then as a result left oil down at the best overtaking race. Bad mistake by Butcher late on, when he just had to be patient, he was that much faster. Jelley of course wouldn't have wanted to win that way, but after all the bad luck he's had the last season and a half, I'm sure he's happy to take it.

Some good performances behind. OJ is finally getting some decent results. Also good to see Tordoff back up there. Nic Hamilton seemed to be able to keep up with the midfield, shame he had that little incident with Morgan in R2. And Blundell was among the midfield in R3. And well done Rowbottom on getting his first point in the BTCC

Coverage was a bit poor at times. Annoyed we missed the restart in R2 due to ad break. And where was the replay of Osbourne's R2 off? And I notice Tim kept referring to Old Hall as Old Hairpin. Still I liked David's Jelley sandwich comment

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by bella

it might not be illegal. they may have just found a loophole in the rules and are exploiting it. so they would need to protest it on the grounds of it not being in the spirit of the regs if there’s a clause in either sporting or technical regs allowing them to?

Yes thats what I was thinking - the whole Dan saying "until we get a handle of that I'm not really sure how we can step up" suggests that.
Kind of reminds me of Brawn in F1 when they exploited a loophole nobody had thought of and dominated the first 7 or 8 rounds

[yellowbeard]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Yes thats what I was thinking - the whole Dan saying "until we get a handle of that I'm not really sure how we can step up" suggests that.
Kind of reminds me of Brawn in F1 when they exploited a loophole nobody had thought of and dominated the first 7 or 8 rounds

If I recall correctly, didn't WSR get into a bit of controversy a few years ago when one of the drivers (Collard or Foster) put their car on it's roof and were spotted to be using a flat floor ?

[porsche962fan]

seeing the penalty list does it mean Sutton is now on 2 strikes ? after he got that 5 place drop at Croft too

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If there were suspicions the car was illegal or suspect, why not just protest it?

Dan did joke "now i can go and complain about it" but the fact a formal protest hasnt been made suggests its more a "not in the spirit of competition" loophole rather than a pure illegality

[Robin Marriott]

Not sure how they could be implementing passive rear steer using a common subframe and control arms with rose joints at both ends. There’s no ‘compliance’ in the setup, it’s all solid mounted.

Active rear steer would be impossible too without a steering rack at the back and I’m pretty sure the rules wouldn’t allow that.

‘Active’ ride height could be possible, the dampers are ‘free’ in the regulations and using a multi spring or even more than one spring could be possible.

[Robin Marriott]

Or it could just be Cammish playing a clever game of ‘yeah we definitely know what’s making them quicker, for sure, we’re not completely in the dark’ to rattle WSR a little.

[VIVA GT]

I am quite sure that if Team Dynamics thought that something on the BMW was against the rules they would have been in touch with TOCA about it immediately.

[psq43]

It probably is something that's another loophole, like the Subaru. Something nobody thought of when the rules were discussed, that's not excluded nor included.

Or it really could just be the perfect combination of resources, team, car, drivers and here we are. The actual perfect NGTC car, but without a boxer engine!!

[Mike Harte]

Regarding the posts about whether AMD or their two teams might or might not have given Butcher the information that it could be likely that Hill would receive a time penalty after the race, there is always the possibility that Rory took the decision that this time he wanted to actually cross the line in first place rather than just have the race awarded to him by the stewards.

He would also have earned an extra point for leading a lap. And points can mean prizes!

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

He would also have earned an extra point for leading a lap. And points can mean prizes!

going up against a guy who is super desperate for his first win doesn't sound like smart choice

and he ended up losing much much more than he gained so a bad cost-benefit analyses

at least Jelley doesn't complain

[S griffin]

Well it would have been frustrating for Rory to have both his wins due to being inherited. Still he could have been a bit more patient in their battle

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

‘Active’ ride height could be possible, the dampers are ‘free’ in the regulations and using a multi spring or even more than one spring could be possible.

Isn't it standard penske coilover units all round so I don't think they could do that?

[crmalcolm]

http://www.btcc.net/about/technical-overview/

'The foundation for NGTC is an emphasis on some common components – turbo, wastegate, intercoolers, ECU (engine control unit), instrumentation and dash, power management system, six-speed sequential gearbox, fuel tanks, differential, subframe, steering, brakes, clutch, wheels, dampers and suspension'

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Or it could just be Cammish playing a clever game of ‘yeah we definitely know what’s making them quicker, for sure, we’re not completely in the dark’ to rattle WSR a little.

When I heard Cammish's interviews, my initial thought at the time was that his comments about where the BMW are getting the majority of their success from is in their acceleration. The 'until we get on top of it' sounded like a request to the administrator to reduce the power available to the BMW, not a suggestion of anything untoward.

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Plato started to moan about straight line speed

In Plato's interviews, his issue with straight line speed was aimed at the lack of it in the Swindon engine compared to other teams, and the car he mentioned specifically (on more than one occasion) was the Honda.

Perhaps this is also part of the reason Cammish was trying to deflect the attention onto the BMW?

One thing I have noticed from Plato this season though - and i feel is a credit to him - is that he accepts people will think his complaints are a bit two-faced, but that he has to do it as part of the expectation placed on him from sponsors and team. He does tend to temper his criticism of the BMW with a respect for the ability of Turkington at the same time.