Sir Lewis Hamilton is the GOAT

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

One of the things that grates with me, was the more combative year Lewis had with Rosberg, when Lewis played the lowly background card in contrast to Nico's Monaco upbringing.

Did he genuinely play a 'lowly background' card? Or is that how the press portrayed his comments to intensify the rivalry?

What did Lewis actually say? IIRC, it was something along the lines of:
'You've seen he […] complains about a lot of things. But you let it go over your head because that's just the way he is. It's kind of the different backgrounds we come from, I guess.'
and 'because Rosberg grew up with 'jets and hotels and boats… the hunger is different'.

Both statements seemed to about playing mind games with his rival, rather than playing any form of class card.

[Knowlesy]

He's winding up people from the distant past now, sublime mind games here.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Did he genuinely play a 'lowly background' card? Or is that how the press portrayed his comments to intensify the rivalry?

What did Lewis actually say? IIRC, it was something along the lines of:
'You've seen he […] complains about a lot of things. But you let it go over your head because that's just the way he is. It's kind of the different backgrounds we come from, I guess.'
and 'because Rosberg grew up with 'jets and hotels and boats… the hunger is different'.

Both statements seemed to about playing mind games with his rival, rather than playing any form of class card.

Nico is the only one to beat him in the same Mercedes over a season, so it didn't work. But even so, but they time he reached F1, Lewis had already had several million pounds spent on his career by McLaren and Mercedes.

Bear in mind how long ago this was and although their things like the Renault academy driver scheme and Red Bull were sponsoring various drivers, I think that Lewis was the best prepared young driver to enter F1 ever, the first of those really managed young drivers. But it still came down to him to deliver and the return for his backers has been massive.

[wnut]

There you go Moneyseeker - perfect recall from you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...pbringing.html

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by wnut

There you go Moneyseeker - perfect recall from you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...pbringing.html

Don't confuse a Daily Mail headline implication with what was actually said.
Lewis did not make any claims about being 'lowly', and never mentioned class.
He said they had different backgrounds (which is true), and that Rosberg's motivation may differ as a result.
The class/status claim is the tabloid interpretation.

[S griffin]

I wonder how many people have actually read that article though? I don't think much was said there. Lewis may have done a lot of things, but he has never played up how lower class he may be, he just gets on with it and does what he can. But he can be quite honest too, I think he didn't think Rosberg would be that much of a threat. It's a shame when the press play things to their advantage, I guess too much time on their hands. But we all love a good debate don't we?

[Aysedasi]

Well, we've seen over the last 7 months how good journalists generally are, haven't we......

[Adam43]

What has journalism got to do with the Daily Mail?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

What has journalism got to do with the Daily Mail?

Hmmm, not a lot. But then again, there has been a dearth of good non-sensationalist journalism around for many months now....

[S griffin]

Everyone has their own opinion. We still have enough papers interested in F1. I am sure that will be the case for some time

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Everyone has their own opinion. We still have enough papers interested in F1. I am sure that will be the case for some time

Legal papers?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Legal papers?

Toilet papers?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Don't confuse a Daily Mail headline implication with what was actually said.
Lewis did not make any claims about being 'lowly', and never mentioned class.
He said they had different backgrounds (which is true), and that Rosberg's motivation may differ as a result.
The class/status claim is the tabloid interpretation.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/9375321

[S griffin]

It’s hard to tell who is the best. I wouldn’t quite say Lewis is the best ever or GOAT or whatever you want to call it. So many variables, plus the fact he has had a dominant car and a team mate who hasn’t pushed him to his maximum. I think we need to see how things pan out next season, see where we are with the performance of different cars and whether better competition will make it harder for Lewis. If only he could go to Racing Point instead of Vettel....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It’s hard to tell who is the best. I wouldn’t quite say Lewis is the best ever or GOAT or whatever you want to call it. So many variables, plus the fact he has had a dominant car and a team mate who hasn’t pushed him to his maximum. I think we need to see how things pan out next season, see where we are with the performance of different cars and whether better competition will make it harder for Lewis. If only he could go to Racing Point instead of Vettel....

Probably Lewis' greatest attribute is the length of his career on the top step, year in year out he is super competitive, and he has managed to surround himself with a really good team that supports him to the hilt, no Ferrari politics to deal with.

[S griffin]

It's true, Lewis has the hunger to stay in F1 and it's paid off for him really well you have to say. He is driving at his best, even if he could do with more competition. And no doubt the team value his input too. If he had gone to Ferrari it could have been so different. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari had talks with him

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

If only he could go to Racing Point instead of Vettel....

Why?

[john ruston]

GOAT?
Not sure.
If some clever person could work out percentage of wins and podiums against number of races completed
Discount DNF’s and divide the number of races Completed
This will give a reasonable comparison.
Much better than total numbers as in the good old days the careers were much shorter and grids smaller .
LH has had at least six seasons when he didn’t have fastest car. Jim Clark had the problems with reliability of Chapmans preparation..Fangio had the fastest car in80 % of his GP’s, MS had a question mark over the Walkenshaw cars early in career and a cavalier attitude in his Ferrari days
Interesting investigation for someone!

[Akrapovic]

Those stats exist.

Fangio 46%
Ascari 39%
Lewis 35%
Clark 34%
Schumacher 29%

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by john ruston

GOAT?
Not sure.
If some clever person could work out percentage of wins and podiums against number of races completed
Discount DNF’s and divide the number of races Completed
This will give a reasonable comparison.
Much better than total numbers as in the good old days the careers were much shorter and grids smaller .
LH has had at least six seasons when he didn’t have fastest car. Jim Clark had the problems with reliability of Chapmans preparation..Fangio had the fastest car in80 % of his GP’s, MS had a question mark over the Walkenshaw cars early in career and a cavalier attitude in his Ferrari days
Interesting investigation for someone!

You've explained why those stats carry little weight in your own post. If multiple explanations can be put forward due to the machinery being driven, what do the stats tell you?

Do the records of Lee Wallard and Bill Vukovich (33% win rate) mean they were better than Senna or Prost?

[gert]

Looking at stats?

The greatest must be Markus Winkelhock.
He has led at least 6 laps in every GP he has participated in.

Beat that; Lewis, Michael and others...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by gert

Looking at stats?

The greatest must be Markus Winkelhock.
He has led at least 6 laps in every GP he has participated in.

Beat that; Lewis, Michael and others...

😂😂👌

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Gets grouchy on the radio. Nobody else does it.

Did you hear Kimi being grouchy on the radio just then? Hilarious! LEGEND.

I dont think hamilton is grouchy on the radio. I think he says things to create drama. He's a drama queen.

Originally Posted by chunterer

He's not the only one though.

Vettel, Max, Bottas, Stroll, Perez, Albon etc have all been under the microscope for various reasons this year. It's part and parcel of life.

Some for reasons I agree with, some I don't.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

And the rest of the grid (or any driver in F1 history) is under the same microscope as Lewis gets?

If senna or schumacher were driving in this era of social media and cameras and radio everywhere, they would get the same microscope. But, to an extent, yes, the others get scrutiny like hamilton. Take albon. "They race me so hard" is now a punchline for him. One radio comment, and he's stuck with that being brought up for the foreseeable future.

Hamilton makes more silly, overdramatic, annoying comments than most. Take the last race. Even the commentators finally sort of snickered at his call about the tires not doing great. It's like a standard of every race. He radios that the tires are in had shape, then immediately proceeds to rip off fast lap after fast lap. Then he's 20+ seconds up and calls that he has a cramp. Oh no! How dramatic! Can he survive the race with a cramp?!?! What an amazing feat to finish and win witha cramp!

He seems to create drama where there is none with stuff like this almost every race. And the commentators dutifully go right along with it, talking about how heroic it is to fight through the troubles he is having. It doesn't help that here in the US we get the British sky sports commentators, building him into a mythical hero. Then I come here and, yes, location checks out as most on here deify him as well.

[Adam43]

What I most like about location checks out is how it can be used to then simply dismiss a whole nation’s opinion.

Shame really as it dismisses a lot of good points.

And, IMHO, completely misses the situation here.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Greem

For comparison we need the charitable accounts for every single F1 driver that has ever lived. Produce that, produce a forensic accountant, let's go for it.

I know he invites it sometimes but the micro analysis of everything Hamilton does really is tiresome. I genuinely can't think of a single former or current driver who gets the approbation he does for everything, inside and outside the car, from everywhere, all the time.

Yes, location checks out etc etc.

He invites it. That's the point. Drama queens irritate people. His insistence on calling over the radio that his tires are gone then proceeding to set fast lap after fast lap, almost every race, is just faux drama. Why call over the radio "I have a cramp"? Were we supposed to be more impressed with his accomplishment because of that? Then the commentators fall for it, up until this past race, where they actually snickered about the tire comment and fast laps.

It is equally tiresome hearing people deify him every race. Of course he's great, one of the best. But he is essentially beating one other car that can compete, driven by a driver we know is not up to beating him.

And stuff like getting out of his car after it dies in qualifying and pushing it, for what reason nobody knows, and saying over the radio after a win "love conquers all" after seeming to be sour, down and out all weekend, commentators wondering why he seemed off that week, etc.

If he didnt want or invite the micro analysis, he wouldn't create drama each week and do things for attention each week. Dont seek attention, then complain about the attention you get.

All that said, he's quite possibly the goat, but impossible to compare across eras. I'd say he matches up very well Schumacher, at least. Stats look virtually even, which surprised me, because I figured he was already way ahead on races run because of longer seasons.