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22 Aug 2021, 19:23 (Ref:4069859) | #1751 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hour 24
For completeness.
https://youtu.be/ZCOSPtyZAPA https://open.spotify.com/track/3qLZ8...2157a8be8f49ff
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22 Aug 2021, 20:43 (Ref:4069863) | #1752 | |||
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I've got a bunch of those 2ft ties laying around. Quote:
That could be true for all of the new hypercars, was barely even an issue. |
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23 Aug 2021, 00:11 (Ref:4069885) | #1753 | ||
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How many of the DNF's were due to accident/collision damage vs mechanical/electronics issues? LMP2 especially weren't as bullet proof as they have been in recent years, ironic both as far as the suspected issues with LMH that didn't really crop up (aside from Toyota's possible issues that didn't actually bite them to a significant degree), and that the LMP2 make less power (but are also somewhat heavier) than in previous years.
You have to remember that United basically had to re-wire one of their cars because of an electrical problem (though ultimately solved it seemed by a battery change?), and Risi hand grenaded an engine. |
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23 Aug 2021, 01:18 (Ref:4069887) | #1754 | |
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From memory, after a quick afternoon nap, I think I can try to split them mechanical vs incident.
LMP2-41 mechanical, 82 mechanical-engine, 25 incident, 32 incident, 1 incident, 24 can't remember GTE-Pro 72-mechanical, 79 incident GTE-Am very cloudy in my brain but remember 98-incident, 56-incident, 47-incident? 388, 46, 57, 66, 55, 99 I can't remember |
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23 Aug 2021, 02:18 (Ref:4069890) | #1755 | |
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I watched most of the race but missed the last few hours. Super happy for the #7 crew to finally get the win. All 3 were super quick and consistent. The 8 didn't look like they were slower but they never got to the 7 in a way to pressure them. When they had the fuel issues I had a bad feeling but they turned it around and that was a big relief. Glickenhaus was there on reliability and thats great for the future.
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23 Aug 2021, 02:36 (Ref:4069891) | #1756 | ||
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Toyota's issues weren't gearbox as speculated on the TV broadcast. They had fuel pick up problems similar to what the #8 had at Monza. They did the work arounds (even pitting the cars early on most stints until the end) to avoid a possible 25 minute fuel filter and fuel pump replacement.
That would've meant instead of winning by 4 laps over Alpine and Glickenhaus, they would've been pushed back to 2-3 or 3-4 by a margin of3-4 laps. Ironically, I also read that the #41 WRT DNF'd because they ran out of fuel on the last lap? |
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23 Aug 2021, 02:47 (Ref:4069893) | #1757 | ||
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Finally López, Kamui and Mike take the win at Le Mans! So happy for all of them and especially for my countryman I have been following for so many years. Vamos Pechito!
Toyota's race was so irregular, they hardly made consecutive stints with the same amount of laps, but both cars that had so many reliability issues in previous races managed to stay on track without losing too much time. It was heartbreaking seeing WRT #41 drop the win with one lap to go, that team had such a solid performance up to that moment. |
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23 Aug 2021, 04:57 (Ref:4069899) | #1758 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Congrats on the 1st ever Argentinian Le Mans winner! |
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23 Aug 2021, 05:49 (Ref:4069903) | #1759 | ||
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Actually, Lopez is the second. You have to go all the way back to 1954 when Jose Froilan Gonzalez won with Ferrari for the first Argentinian to win LM overall.
As far as aero, the LMH/LMDH cars have to meet a lift/drag ratio (or how the ACO defines it) of 4:1 if I remember correctly. How the teams/manufacturers meet that is up to them, however. It should be noted, though, that the Toyotas had the fastest in race trap speeds of any car, with 339.1 kmh/210.7 mph. Last edited by chernaudi; 23 Aug 2021 at 05:56. |
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23 Aug 2021, 06:18 (Ref:4069904) | #1760 | ||
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Also just read that the WRT DNF was caused by a bad throttle sensor on Motorsport Total.
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23 Aug 2021, 06:38 (Ref:4069908) | #1761 | ||
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23 Aug 2021, 07:15 (Ref:4069911) | #1762 | |
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They showed that stat all throughout the race. Granted, I also saw them doing mostly 325 kmph. They must have hit that number drafting another car.
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23 Aug 2021, 08:01 (Ref:4069915) | #1763 | |||||||
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Quote:
Besides, no different really than Audi's 'golden era' at Le Mans during the 2000s. Quote:
Quote:
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Reliability at Le Mans can also be viewed as finishing reliability, or the ability to finish the race no matter what the race throws at you (mechanical, electrical, accidents or any other issues). Historically, cars that are very fragile in an accident or collision tend to do poorly at Le Mans. Quote:
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23 Aug 2021, 08:24 (Ref:4069918) | #1764 | ||
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Wow. Where should I begin?
First of all thankyou for Tentenths to create this site where enthusiast Endurance Racing fans can communicate! As a Toyota fan, I am very happy the won the race, but Maan did they have problems! Congratulations to the Number 7 crew to finally win it! It was very emotional. Glickenhaus did a good job too. It was interesting though how slow their average laptimes compared to Toyota were. Jim Glickenhaus was interviewed a few times where he always told: "This is a BoP class, you have to slow the Hybrid Hypercar Toyotas down". Of course this is a BoP class. Power output is regulated and equalled out. Aerodynamics are regulated . MJ per stint is regulated and equalled out. What more do you want? It will take Glickenhaus a lot of testing, racing, experience collecting before they can come close to winning at Le Mans. You just have to be patient and keep your head down. Good luck to Glickenhaus in the future. Alpine did the best they could. Feel utterly sorry for WRT. After Toyota s 2016 campaign I did not think I would see a drama at the finish no more. It was Heartbraking. AF Corse did their job, brought the Nr. 51 home in style. The am Class also AF Corse. Wonder what can they do in LMH! |
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23 Aug 2021, 08:56 (Ref:4069926) | #1765 | |
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Le Mans delivers another great event
The rain really livened things up in the opening laps, not surprised to see drivers struggling to keep it on the track. Well done to the #7, they deserve it after all their unrewarded efforts over the past few years. Pleased for all 3 of the drivers. #8 was unlucky at the start, just a victim of someone else's mistake in treacherous conditions The Glicks struggled at the beginning, but at least they got to the end. Nice to see Jim throughout the coverage, he's done a brilliant job just to get the car to Le Mans, now he's made it to the end The challenge to the hypercars from the LMP2 cars never did happen, but still was a great race in the class. What rotten luck from the #41. Not quite as cruel as what happened to the Toyota in 2016, but not far off. At least it's team mate the #31 managed to take the win instead. That was close at the end with the chequered flag man though. And well done to Dragonspeed for winning LMP2 Pro-AM despite a few problems. Just a shame JPM can't count a class win as part of motorsport's triple crown.... Well done for AF Corse for winning both GT classes, once again the best of the bunch So thanks for another great event Le Mans. Now looking forward to seeing the likes of Ferrari and Peugeot competing in the top class |
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23 Aug 2021, 09:00 (Ref:4069927) | #1766 | ||
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Quote:
lmh and lmdh rules tell manufacturer to design their cars on a 4:1 ratio, with 1 intended as cx I think, considering that bodywork is frozen once homologated, none is going to homologate a high drag car to get more downforce because it would be really penalizing at le mans. I think toyota, 007 and peugeot have reached the same or however comparable amount of downforce (intended as overall N that push the car to the ground as X speed) but achieved on a different aero balance, mostly if we talk about peugeot. Anyway toyota marked high top speed at about 339km/h, but this means nothing because it was clearly reached in favourable conditions, also corvette c8r managed to reach about 309km/h during the race. During qualifying and FP both toyota and 007 had a top speed in range of 320-330 all the time, considering cars have the same power, this can suggest cars have also a similiar drag value, so as consequence similiar if not same max downforce allowed. |
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23 Aug 2021, 09:09 (Ref:4069929) | #1767 | ||
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Quote:
toyota vs porsche/audi is a whole different sport than toyota vs alpine/glickenhaus. That's a fact. And you're right about audi, audi won many ALMS season against no serious competitors (but penske porsches in some tracks even if they were running in different classes). The same they dominated early-mid '00 LM because it was a R8 vs R8 battle or R8-R10 against pescarolo. Even when bentley won in 2003 it was because there was audi sport/joest behind. |
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23 Aug 2021, 09:22 (Ref:4069930) | #1768 | ||
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Which is a clear illustration of making the best of what you've got. You can only beat the people who turn up to race you. It pains me when people talk of Toyota having had no competition in recent years when that was simply because Audi and Porsche beetled off to hide...
My glass was decidedly half empty at the start of this Le Mans week. Not being there again was painful for me, but I enjoyed the race, certainly much more than last year. Having a 'family' interest (again) made a difference but I actually thought it was a much better race and the threat of Toyota dramas kept me awake in the last quarter. |
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280 days...... |
23 Aug 2021, 09:56 (Ref:4069943) | #1769 | ||
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No TV coverage in Australia spoiled it for me this year.
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23 Aug 2021, 09:56 (Ref:4069944) | #1770 | ||
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280 days...... |
23 Aug 2021, 10:11 (Ref:4069952) | #1771 | ||
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Quote:
it's different (IMHO), because toyota vs alpine/glickenhaus means that toyota is racing on its own, dealing with own drivers ability, reliability and team ability to adapt to different situations, basically running against rivals who can't realistically match toyota short and long term performance for the overall win (unless of toyota's bad luck, drivers mistakes or reliability issues) toyota vs porsche/audi it was the same writte above + the necessity to push everytime and everything further on a higher limit because there were rivals at same level or even better who could beat toyota and win the race due better performances. Of course le mans requires maximum effort and 0 mistake attitude anyhow. The fact audi and porsche had to retire while toyota decided to remain is another matter, but can't deny that work teams vs work teams is a much higher competitive and challenging scenario than work team vs private teams. |
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23 Aug 2021, 10:17 (Ref:4069957) | #1772 | ||
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Oh absolutely. But it is what it is.... The history of sports car racing (any racing for that matter) is littered with periods where one manufacturer has a huge advantage or is fighting only against privateers. We're clearly in an interim period before other works efforts give us (and Toyota) more competition. But I don't think any of this devalues Toyota's achievement with a new car at Le Mans nor does it devalue what was a stunning first Le Mans for a privateer team in Glickenhaus.
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280 days...... |
23 Aug 2021, 10:42 (Ref:4069965) | #1773 | ||
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Just for reference, Toyota's first Le Mans back (of this stint) did have them taking it to Audi and leading on pace ... before the complexity of the initial TS020 design made on-site repairs impossible.
Compare and contrast to both Glickenhaus (trouble free all race) and their own efforts this time (managing an on-going issue while maintaining a lead) shows how far both teams have come. Ignore the naysayers, whoever turns up and takes the flag is the worthy winner. |
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23 Aug 2021, 11:32 (Ref:4069971) | #1774 | ||
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I went to town on it and splashed out 10 euros (A$16) for the 'official' WEC/Le Mans website stream with all the trimmings. ISTR I did the same last year when Foxtel here dropped their Eurosport channel not long before the event.
I spent more on coffee to stay awake for all bar a couple of hours, plus French bread and cheese .... mood food to help me think im there! The best value 10 Euros I have spent for a long time. No buffering dropouts or interruptions (FWIW a stream for the LM24 is the only event I have ever paid for. (beyond my normal Foxtel TV sub). One day I will get there for real. Until then I will happily throw 10 Euros at a reliable stream. Last edited by E.B; 23 Aug 2021 at 11:46. |
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23 Aug 2021, 12:03 (Ref:4069973) | #1775 | ||
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Quote:
Are you meaning 2012 toyota return? because ts020 was toyota gt-one of 1998-1999. Anyway, unlike 007, debuting 2012 ts030 revealed to be a more performant car than R18 etron/ultra, infact toyota won quite easily 3 races after le mans and they could had actually won all 5 post LM races despite worse consumes and some bad luck. I don't think your example fits the actual situation, also because according to 10 years ago technological context, ts030 was a much more complex car than nowadays 007. And of course, sure, I agree, whoever wins is always right and always worthy, but in each victory there can be different levels of competitiveness... anyway it's history who decides the importance of each victory. |
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