[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Chiana

In the poster, it's interesting of them to have the Super Formula there instead of Lexus GT3 or Lexus LFA N24 or GT86 N24 or GT86 GT300 or GT300 Prius or Yaris WRC (whenever it comes) or Sprint Cup "Toyota" or some other programme. It is spec Dallara after all with only Toyota engine. But I guess it's there for domestic & variety marketing

For the fan meeting, another here with LFA Code X added

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Having the same trio (Lotterer-Tréluyer-Fässler) win LM three times (a record ?) tells much about the relevant strengths of those three guys. One can try to rate them individually as much as one wants - and one driver out of the three will always deliver less than the others - but ultimately it's the ability of all three to bond together and deliver as a team that matters. And this is well recognised and valued by Audi as a matter of fact.

This is surely an area where Toyota could improve BTW. Sacking a driver after some "difficult" races does not help create the necessary bond amongst the drivers. Constantly changing driver lineups does not help either.

How does that make sense? Keeping a guy in the car that has crashed out of Le Mans two years in a row in the same conditions (wet) plus at COTA doesnt seem sensible imo. He has a job just like everyone else. If he does a bad job, you think he should get another chance? I think Toyota gave him 3. Just like in baseball with the strikes rule. Le Mans '13, '14 and COTA'14. Each cost the team a shot at or the sure win. If I do three things wrong of the same sort at my job, I'll be terminated.

Bonds can be broken, and new bonds formed. All the team is a team, they drive the same car. Its not like its a totally new lineup of inexperienced pilots. On that subject, Conway got in at Bahrain and was the fastest guy in the #7. Not bad for a new guy.

[chernaudi]

To be fair, Conway was a reserve/test driver and did race at COTA. However, I do have to say that him saving that car in that huge slide in that thunderstorm was remarkable, and his road racing background and the characteristics of LMP cars vs open wheelers suits him well.

You have to remember that he only ran partial schedules in Indy Car because he doesn't like oval racing, and at Toyota, he knows that he'll be getting a decent salary instead of having to sponsor hunt or be the road racing journeyman he was in Indy Car.

[TF110]

Cota was wet, I can call that a fair shot but I think Bahrain was a better benchmark. He raced lmp2 before so he has some experience, but nothing close to the Toyota (besides testing).

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

How does that make sense? Keeping a guy in the car that has crashed out of Le Mans two years in a row in the same conditions (wet) plus at COTA doesnt seem sensible imo. He has a job just like everyone else. If he does a bad job, you think he should get another chance? I think Toyota gave him 3. Just like in baseball with the strikes rule. Le Mans '13, '14 and COTA'14. Each cost the team a shot at or the sure win. If I do three things wrong of the same sort at my job, I'll be terminated.

"We win together, we lose together"

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

"We win together, we lose together"

Would Premat & Luhr agree with this?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

"We win together, we lose together"

Not sure how Buemi and Davidson felt about that twice in two races (especially after the biggest one of the year) Nothing against Lapierre at all, but if he was let go, those are the reasons I think would be presented.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not sure how Buemi and Davidson felt about that twice in two races (especially after the biggest one of the year) Nothing against Lapierre at all, but if he was let go, those are the reasons I think would be presented.

One could also argue that had Lapierre not been able to get the car back to the pits at LM, Buemi and Davidson would not have been able to finish on the podium

Errors are human, and Lapierre has demonstrated in the past that he is a fine driver. The manner in which Lapierre has been sidelined is a bit disgusting IMHO. Now, that's the manner Toyota appear to be willing to handle those "issues" it seems.

Let's just hope for Buemi, Davdison & Co. that they are not going to make any "costly" mistake during any of the upcoming races, especially at LM

[TF110]

Disgusting? Now thats reaching too far. No one knows besides Toyota if he had a real family issue, or if it was a probation period for his mistake at LM.

And commending someone for driving their crashed car back to the pits is kind of silly if it was their fault in the first place. It was the same mistake in 2013. He repeated it, twice. Any driver who goes and does the same mistake by crashing the car, the same way, three seperate times should be given a review. Audi, Porsche, Nissan etc. would all do the same thing.

[cokata]

Also spun on his own 20 minutes into last years lemans in the 2nd mulsanne chicane. Costing him 2nd places, and after several unsuccessful attempts to overtake #2 Audi, lost a place to the #3 Audi. Horrible stint ending with a incident that took #8 out of the running for the win. After that he was consistently slower than Buemi and Davidson.

So in a recap the 2 most important qualities a race driver should have is driving fast, and error-free, and he was failing to do both.

[Hawkwood]

Regardless of Lapierre's strengths and weaknesses, sidelining him for crashing on suddenly wet tracks whilst on dry tyres seems very harsh to me...

[Articus]

While I do understand that TMG is the german arm so to speak of Toyota, a Japanese firm, I couldn't skip that fact Japanese companies tend to have a very strict performance based corporate culture. Anyone ever wonder why their rail system is incredibly punctual? Lapierre got one too many strikes and sounds like he was let go as a result.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Disgusting? Now thats reaching too far. No one knows besides Toyota if he had a real family issue, or if it was a probation period for his mistake at LM.

Well, it's pretty obvious that the alleged "family issues" have nothing to do with him being sidelined in the middle of the season.

Lapierre deserves better and I am hopeful that he will find a race seat somewhere else, most likely with Nissan. After all, he is currently the only "active" driver available on the market having experience with modern LMP1-H machinery.

[TF110]

Ok. I know youre saying it was wrong of Toyota, he deserved another chance, he deserves better... thats your opinion. I respect that. But Toyota are the decision makers, they decided he wasn't going to drive for them. Done deal. Im not sure what were discussing is the same thing. While I get youre saying it was wrong of them, I think a couple others and myself are listing things that caused him to lose his seat. Wrong or right, he doesn't look like he'll continue with Toyota.

On his driving, it wasn't his fault that the rain came suddenly, but the fault is that he didn't drive more cautiously. He had it happen to him in 2013. You would think that incident might have impressed on him to slow it down. But it looked like he threw caution at the wind. I would have coasted especially with the tires he had on. "Coulda woulda shoulda" I guess.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Lapierre deserves better and I am hopeful that he will find a race seat somewhere else, most likely with Nissan. After all, he is currently the only "active" driver available on the market having experience with modern LMP1-H machinery.

Nah, if you do your job badly, you get sacked.

[chernaudi]

As much as I understand Toyota wanting to make a change as far as performance, I don't understand or agree with their methodology of coming up with some cover story when it would've been just as easy for them to say that Nico was demoted from the primary driving squad. Especially when we all know what transpired and it just makes TMG/Toyota/Oreca all look like the bad guys.

Also, IMO, TMG can also be somewhat faulted for the wrecks/spins in the rain. IMO, it seemed that at LM and COTA that they didn't learn from the errors that Audi made at Silverstone anymore than Nico didn't learn from LM '13. More embarrassingly, if you ask me, TMG's decision on when to pit at COTA screwed them out potentially better finishes for their cars as much as Nico's and Conway's spins on a flooded track and on slick tires.

Hell, even at LM and COTA, Audi put their cars onto at least intermediate tires, if not full wets, and even they could barely hold their cars on the road at anything above pace car speeds.

Nico is as culpable as anyone else for him being forced to leave the team as a front-line driver, but I do question what TMG's strategy was at LM and COTA as far as when to pit for tires and who made that call.

At Silverstone, I'd think that some of the higher up at Audi Sport/Team Joest (guys like Ralf Juttner and maybe even Dr. Ulrich) listened too much to the weatherman and not their drivers. To put it short, I'd think that Andre Lotterer and Lucas di Grassi wouldn't agree with what the team meteorologist told them. So Audi put things back into the drivers hands as far as having the final say on the right tires for track conditions.

Granted, it could just as easily been a driver mistake as well to explain why the Audis were still on slicks as the rain worsened, but why TMG at both LM and COTA didn't bring their drivers onto pit road when they knew that the weather had to be worsening baffles me a bit. Doesn't really excuse Nico's errors, but if the team contributed to them, that should raise a few questions. Not to mention Toyota's daft public line of "personal problems".

[Articus]

Althought it sounds like we want to get past this, the "family situation" thing is quite silly. Nico Lapierre himself posted the following on twitter on the exact same day it was announced that he was having the extreme illness in the family.

1/2 @Toyota_Hybrid decided to finish the season with two drivers in car #8, I have to accept it.

If that's not true, it's almost insulting of Toyota. It sounds like they didn't want his name anywhere near the 2014 WEC drivers title because they knew they would let him go at end of season.-

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Articus

Althought it sounds like we want to get past this, the "family situation" thing is quite silly. Nico Lapierre himself posted the following on twitter on the exact same day it was announced that he was having the extreme illness in the family.



If that's not true, it's almost insulting of Toyota. It sounds like they didn't want his name anywhere near the 2014 WEC drivers title because they knew they would let him go at end of season.-

and what a great decision that was. they won both championships without him or his mistakes. time to accept reality. if you don't perform, there isnt a need for you in the squad. i don't understand why so many people are blaming Toyota? To be honest, "he was let go of due to family reasons" is a better story than "he was let go of, because we cant handle the rate that he makes mistakes". IMO by doing the former, they are protecting both Nico's and their reputation

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

To be honest, "he was let go of due to family reasons" is a better story than "he was let go of, because we cant handle the rate that he makes mistakes". IMO by doing the former, they are protecting both Nico's and their reputation

Erm, wouldn't the fact we are having this discussion contradict that? If a few obsessives on t'internet are able to suss why Nico has been demoted then industry insiders will definitely be able to, if they even needed to work it out in the first place. So it does nothing to preserve Lapierre's reputation with those that actually matter (i.e. other teams of potential employ) and Toyota end up looking somewhere between foolish and duplicitous. It's a long way from Kinoshita & Nakajima personally apologizing to the Deltawing crew...

For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with TMG sidelining or even sacking Lapierre. Other drivers had made similar mistakes, but unfortunately for him he's made enough of them at the one race that counts. That plus not being able to match the (admittedly electric) pace of his teammates meant that TMG had little choice but to try and get a faster/more consistent driver in. In fact, I would support them for looking to improve - I want to see the best drivers possible, and there are in my opinion better drivers available. But I don't see what's stopping them from saying that he just wasn't good enough.

[Ephaeton]

I guess it's all about that happy PR story.
Too often, nowadays.

[TF110]

Who says the family situation was a lie? Maybe there was an illness or injury. So what if they let him go anyway? If hes so good he'll find another job! Hell, I wish they did this in their F1 days of the Trulli-train and second slower-Schumacher.

[Japanese Samurai]

Japanese media reports that Toyota to announce 2017 WRC return.
How does this news influence Toyota WEC challenge?
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2015/01/333478.html
http://www.47news.jp/news/2015/01/po...127020107.html

[TF110]

Hopefully its in conjunction. Unless wrc has hybrids, I cant see why they'd quit the wec in one or two years.

[J Jay]

TMC aren't exactly low on cash, they can easily afford to do both.

Another avenue of racing to conquer doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by TF110

Hopefully its in conjunction. Unless wrc has hybrids, I cant see why they'd quit the wec in one or two years.

I thought hybrids were what Toyota were all about demonstrating? I can't imagine hybrids in the WRC - it's too revolutionary. Not only that, what happens if a hybrid WRC goes off?