2024 Season - News and Rumours

[veeten]

Exactly, they were going around in circles with no real improvement. Steiner may have been great for PR, but what they need is a person more capable of delivering better results than what has been over the last couple of seasons.
Komatsu is more of a stop gap, even with his experience with the operation. What is needed is a person that can really bring them further up the grid, well past the likes of Williams, Stake, and Alpha Tauri. Recently, there have been several managers that have been released that have made great strides, albeit with teams that were a bit more than they could handle. But with a team like Haas could improve them to be more competitive. One of them could do impressive things.

But, ultimately, it all depends on Gene and what direction he wants this operation to go.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Having said that, if you're last you really can't get too much worse.

This is where Gene is probably logic-boming the decision from.

A change definitely had to be made, and as the man at the top the buck does stop with Guenther.

But the problem is, they haven't really replaced him, all they did was move a senior guy from somewhere else. All well and good to say "hey McLaren did the same thing with Andrea Stella and they shot up the standings, let's copy that". The issue with that is, McLaren actively recruited infrastructure around Stella to give him and the team the best chance to succeed.

Haas have just shuffled the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Greem]

Anyway: Toto Wolff has signed a 3 year contract with Mercedes, so more of the same there!

[chillibowl]

some Marko comments on the Steiner firing:

“Let’s put it this way: anyone who becomes too popular through a documentary like Netflix tends to take off,” said Marko. “But if you fly too high too fast, you also crash faster.

“I’ve only heard that he wanted to convert his popularity into shares in the team. And that no longer appealed to owner Gene Haas.

“It is also the case in our sport that the team always takes precedence over the individual. Steiner became a victim of his popularity.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...iner-haas-exit

a decidedly less results driven analysis but Marko tends to always brings a different spin on things...if it is true then its pretty ironic that instead of bringing more attention and sponsors to the team, Drive to Survive may have factored into GS' exit and in a way might turn out to be more destabilizing for the team.

several years later, im curious to know how many in the paddock still believe the Netflix show has been a positive for either their team or their career?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

a decidedly less results driven analysis but Marko tends to always brings a different spin on things...if it is true then its pretty ironic that instead of bringing more attention and sponsors to the team, Drive to Survive may have factored into GS' exit and in a way might turn out to be more destabilizing for the team.

So those quotes came from Marko, but I have seen the sentiment that Steiner was overshadowing Gene Haas or maybe just the team itself, that he was riding the wave of his popularity vs. focusing on the team and also general comments of "good riddance" in other social media. I can imagine there was friction between Haas and Steiner in that Steiner was doing very well personally while the team was not. I do find the negative comments about Steiner interesting, but I have nothing to base an opinion one way or another as to what people thought of him inside the Haas team.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

several years later, im curious to know how many in the paddock still believe the Netflix show has been a positive for either their team or their career?

See below...

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway: Toto Wolff has signed a 3 year contract with Mercedes, so more of the same there!

Three more years of the F1 broadcast team trying hard to catch Toto throwing a fit in the garage. I haven't really watched DTS that much at all (maybe an episode or two), but was Toto cast as the heavy? Maybe he might not care for the level of media attention he gets via the F1 broadcasters or DTS.

Richard

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

some Marko comments on the Steiner firing:

“Let’s put it this way: anyone who becomes too popular through a documentary like Netflix tends to take off,” said Marko. “But if you fly too high too fast, you also crash faster.

“I’ve only heard that he wanted to convert his popularity into shares in the team. And that no longer appealed to owner Gene Haas.

“It is also the case in our sport that the team always takes precedence over the individual. Steiner became a victim of his popularity.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...iner-haas-exit

a decidedly less results driven analysis but Marko tends to always brings a different spin on things...if it is true then its pretty ironic that instead of bringing more attention and sponsors to the team, Drive to Survive may have factored into GS' exit and in a way might turn out to be more destabilizing for the team.

several years later, im curious to know how many in the paddock still believe the Netflix show has been a positive for either their team or their career?

I'm not sure we can take the unhinged ramblings of a senile old git like Marko with too much seriousness.

Steiner's been in the paddock for decades, is highly respected and is simply being moved on because the team was not performing, and that's what happens in a results driven industry.

[veeten]

The real trick, then, will be how the team gets on with Komatsu, given that he will be working with the same personal and budget that Steiner had. If there is improvement, then we'll have our answer.
But, if the problems persist, then the real issues resides further up the ladder... namely at the owners' feet.

[MaxLL]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

some Marko comments on the Steiner firing:

“Let’s put it this way: anyone who becomes too popular through a documentary like Netflix tends to take off,” said Marko. “But if you fly too high too fast, you also crash faster.

“I’ve only heard that he wanted to convert his popularity into shares in the team. And that no longer appealed to owner Gene Haas.

“It is also the case in our sport that the team always takes precedence over the individual. Steiner became a victim of his popularity.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...iner-haas-exit

a decidedly less results driven analysis but Marko tends to always brings a different spin on things...if it is true then its pretty ironic that instead of bringing more attention and sponsors to the team, Drive to Survive may have factored into GS' exit and in a way might turn out to be more destabilizing for the team.

several years later, im curious to know how many in the paddock still believe the Netflix show has been a positive for either their team or their career?

Honestly, I don't quite understand the connection between popularity and performance. It's like fans make the team more efficient. Did the pit stops start happening faster because of the fans?

[Mike Harte]

The one thing that puzzles me is that, apparently, Steiner was given the push because of the the teams results have been so disappointing due to the seeming poor performance of the cars compared to other teams' cars. From what I've read, a lot of this is due to the wear of tyres during long stints, whereas in qualifying they are very quick over one or two laps.

This ends to lead me to think that the problem therefore originates in the engineering and design team within Haas; or am I wrong? So, why did Haas decide to not renew Steiner's contract and then replace him with Komatsu who was in charge of the engineering?

[MaxLL]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The one thing that puzzles me is that, apparently, Steiner was given the push because of the the teams results have been so disappointing due to the seeming poor performance of the cars compared to other teams' cars. From what I've read, a lot of this is due to the wear of tyres during long stints, whereas in qualifying they are very quick over one or two laps.

This ends to lead me to think that the problem therefore originates in the engineering and design team within Haas; or am I wrong? So, why did Haas decide to not renew Steiner's contract and then replace him with Komatsu who was in charge of the engineering?

The possibility of some sort of personal conflict can't be overlooked

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by MaxLL

Honestly, I don't quite understand the connection between popularity and performance. It's like fans make the team more efficient. Did the pit stops start happening faster because of the fans?

i suppose the prevailing logic would be the more popular or attention around a team the more sponsors/the more money the team can extract from sponsors and in sports, all things being equal, money translates into performance.

does that logic still hold true in the cap era and/or with teams who may already be operating at the upper end of the cap...interesting question?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Skam85

I'm not sure we can take the unhinged ramblings of a senile old git like Marko with too much seriousness.

Steiner's been in the paddock for decades, is highly respected and is simply being moved on because the team was not performing, and that's what happens in a results driven industry.

im inclined to agree with this...also Gene Haas doesnt seem to be like the other billionaire owners who seem to crave the attention that comes with always being in the paddock, doing interviews during the boradcast etc.

obviously i dont know him, but he always comes across as being content being in the back ground so why would he now lament Steiner for being in the forefront?

people are weird tho so who knows!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i suppose the prevailing logic would be the more popular or attention around a team the more sponsors/the more money the team can extract from sponsors and in sports, all things being equal, money translates into performance.

does that logic still hold true in the cap era and/or with teams who may already be operating at the upper end of the cap...interesting question?

It gives them more money, but Ferrari has been more popular than average but often performs less than average. BUT you can recover from poor decisions a bit better when you can spend your way out of your mistakes and rehire. Now with the cap, well that's more risky and you'll be stuck with your poor decisions longer.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im inclined to agree with this...also Gene Haas doesnt seem to be like the other billionaire owners who seem to crave the attention that comes with always being in the paddock, doing interviews during the boradcast etc.

obviously i dont know him, but he always comes across as being content being in the back ground so why would he now lament Steiner for being in the forefront?

people are weird tho so who knows!

Yeah, he seems much happier meeting with the engineers and guys who know his products than being like Marco and searching out the media. Even the press photos seem to be from across a lot catching him moving.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

This ends to lead me to think that the problem therefore originates in the engineering and design team within Haas; or am I wrong? So, why did Haas decide to not renew Steiner's contract and then replace him with Komatsu who was in charge of the engineering?

I think this is a key question. If you are a fan of Steiner getting the boot, then your narrative might be that Steiner's leadership and overall direction was preventing the team from operating efficiently and successfully. If you are not a fan of him getting the book, then your narrative might be that they have put the engineers of a failed solution in charge.

It may not be that simple. I have seen comments (can't remember if here or elsewhere) that were saying that while Steiner was running things, that Gene Haas had to sign off on lots of things. The implication is that he was sometimes (maybe) saying "no" to good ideas and that some of the blame could be on Haas himself.

I frankly don't know what to believe. It still remains that Steiner was in the role a long time and the team has drifted to the rear of the field. So from the outside looking in, it remains unsurprising he was cut loose. However the other half of that plan is some type of doing something different. Was Komatsu being held back somehow by Steiner? If so, maybe he can be successful. If Haas himself was the problem, then why would Komatsu do any better?

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i suppose the prevailing logic would be the more popular or attention around a team the more sponsors/the more money the team can extract from sponsors and in sports, all things being equal, money translates into performance.

does that logic still hold true in the cap era and/or with teams who may already be operating at the upper end of the cap...interesting question?

It seems that some of the speculation was around funding. If I remember correctly, I got the impression from one of the few post firing Steiner interviews that the topic of CapEx was an issue. That Haas (team) was not fully taking advantage of the opportunities to build up the team infrastructure now when it could.

See quote from this article regarding cost caps and how CapEx investment fits in as well as schedule for timing...
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f...lls-dangerous/

F1’s financial regulations previously set a uniform CapEx limit for all teams. This is effectively $45million for the four-year reporting period covering 2021-2024, which then dropped to $36m for 2022-2025.

Did Gene and the team take advantage of the higher allowance for CapEx investment in the 21-24 time period? Or did they miss the boat and spend less and are now behind on that spending and moving into a period in which that expenditure has an even lower cap???

I think I also saw a comment attributed to Gene Haas that the team was "at the cap or nearly so". Was that the yearly operational cap, the CapEx cap or both (note, there are two different caps).

There is also a comment from Gene Haas (me paraphrasing)... "given our budget, we shouldn't be in last place". The issue is... everyone could be spending right to the cap and someone is going to be in first place and someone is going to be in last place. I think this both defends and negates some of Gene Haas's thinking. First... maybe more funding is not needed because funding is not the differentiator it used to be (I think this broadly ignores issues brought up by teams like Williams regarding existing facilities and infrastructure that wealthy teams can rely upon while historically underfunded teams might be hobbled by) and Second (to my point above)... someone is always in last place and it very well may be you if you don't have your stuff together.

Richard

[Squalled]

McLaren has revealed their livery for the year.



https://speedcafe.com/mclaren-surpri...ivery-release/

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Squalled

McLaren has revealed their livery for the year.



https://speedcafe.com/mclaren-surpri...ivery-release/

I'd like to see that on the actual 2024 car. Otherwise it looks ok.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway: Toto Wolff has signed a 3 year contract with Mercedes, so more of the same there!

And now James Allison has signed a long term contract extension too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68001772

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Squalled

McLaren has revealed their livery for the year.



https://speedcafe.com/mclaren-surpri...ivery-release/

A little bit too much black for my liking....

[Peter Mallett]

That's because there's a bit too much of car.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

The official race times has been produced showing both Local and GMT times.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...16.01.24_1.pdf

Still have the sprints format and timings to sort out

[Ferrari333SP]

Visa CashApp RB? That's what AlphaTauri will change their name to???? F****** awful

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/n...itle/10567416/

[chillibowl]

i mean we dont have to call it that but to be honest that potential name is so bad i kind of like it. its almost the perfect pejorative for this day and age.

theres a paydriver who lacks skill but has access to funds...their new nickname is CashApp. you are a team owned by an investment firm or willing to take on any sponsor for money, you are now Team CashApp! works for the whole grid really!

Still, I must speak frankly, Mr. Shankly
Oh, give us money

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Visa CashApp RB? That's what AlphaTauri will change their name to???? F****** awful

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/n...itle/10567416/

It's Toro Rosss Jim but not as we know it.

[veeten]

So, the very same app that is on my phone, the one that lets me send and receive money from family and friends, is now a official sponsor of an F1 team? How,... novel. So when does ally, NetSpend &Chime, and other internet financial firms and banks show up, if they already have?...

[Richard C]

I think this is all just the sad destination we have arrived at with respect to team names becoming another commodity that can be sold to sponsors. Key info from that same Motorsports article linked above...

Speaking last year about the plan, AlphaTauri CEO Peter Bayer said: "The identity will be generic.

"The identity is what Toro Rosso would have been, and it's moving closer to the Red Bull family again. But then it will appear with the naming rights partners. We will change the company name, we will change identity, logo, everything, a complete relaunch, complete rebrand."

I bolded the interesting bit. The actual team identity doesn't matter anymore. It looks to just be "RB" (clearly an abbreviation/initials from "Racing Bull"). The name of the team is basically for sale. We (fans) focus on continuity of teams already and create nicknames to help define that continuity such as "The Enstone Team". Is this going to just get worse? That outside of a few big players that will keep their legacy name front and center the names stop meaning anything?

BWT Alpine F1 Team
Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team
Scuderia Ferrari
MoneyGram Haas F1 Team
Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber
McLaren F1 Team
Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
Visa Cash App RB
Oracle Red Bull Racing
Williams Racing

I think those are the 2024 names? I can imagine McLaren and Williams haven't followed suite only because no sponsor has met their rate card demands for team naming rights just yet. Ferrari doesn't do it out of pride. Mercedes and Aston Martin at least puts their name first. And even then isn't really "Aston Martin" F1 a badging effort and not really "Aston Martin" but rather Racing Point/Stroll F1? And even Alpine is a branding exercise within Renault as AMG is within Mercedes.

Richard