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27 Oct 2015, 11:49 (Ref:3585956) | #176 | ||
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Another thing we have to consider is that WEC doesn't have F1 bullshit restrictions. When F1 was more free, Ferrari never needed a wind tunnel(that's partially why they have been suffering so much since 2009. Their own wind tunnel consistently have had correlations problems and they were using Toyota's Cologne one at some point). If they needed to evaluate CFD predictions, they would just go to the track(Fiorano, for that matter, which was nearby) and have real results right there on the spot. All BMW would need is super computers and CFD(relatively cheap) and then run on some private(don't know if they have one) track to test it. BMW consistently supplied the most powerful engines in F1 against several others marques like Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, so I don't see them lagging behind on that department. All in all, if they could showcase a proven succesfull tech with hydrogen-powered fuel cell race car, that could fullfill their marketing's aims regardless of the results. They wouldn't need to win to sell their hydrogen-powered cars, they just need to prove the tech works reliably and is cost effective for the customer, imho. Last edited by Artur; 27 Oct 2015 at 11:56. |
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27 Oct 2015, 22:59 (Ref:3586077) | #177 | |
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I'm sure whatever it is that BMW is working on, they are already doing it. They most likely have a working group together already. Porsche debuted a car last year that was born in 2010-2011.
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28 Oct 2015, 00:34 (Ref:3586097) | #178 | ||
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BMW still have Miramar in France as a private test track don't they??
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28 Oct 2015, 00:54 (Ref:3586101) | #179 | |
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Gotta say the article makes a good point in about going hydrogen... they are going to partner with Toyota in that area. Not sure how Toyota would feel about bmw being the first to do a hydrogen powered LM racer. I dont think theyd like to be beat to that like Audi was first to race with a hyrid lmp1. I think g56 is more likely at the moment and maybe it pushes the aco to open that up to lmp? Of note is theres a Gran Turismo vision car by Hyundai that uses a hydrogen hybrid powertrain in an lmp1 type car. This could open up the door to more than just bmw.
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29 Oct 2015, 12:36 (Ref:3586387) | #180 | |
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BMW has no budget to fight the big dogs! They like to be mocked from time to time. FIA WEC is not just technology and ACO PR sing songs. It is a deep pocket war. Ask those guys at Cologne.
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30 Oct 2015, 02:58 (Ref:3586549) | #181 | |
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BMW is swimming in cash, it's all a question about whether they`re willing to open the wallet, same as Toyota.
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2 Nov 2015, 16:54 (Ref:3587539) | #182 | |||
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Toyota and Honda in F1: waste of money. Nissan in LMP1: I guess too. Citroën in WRC and WTCC: waste of money. Renault in F1: good investment when Alonso won, bad investment when Vettel won. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
4 Nov 2015, 10:14 (Ref:3588075) | #183 | |
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Not sure why WRC would have been a bad investment for Citroen.
They had a works presence there for more than a decade and you'd think that the program was under scrutiny from the board for several times during that period. So they must have been happy with what they got out of it, especially as it was extremely successful as well. |
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4 Nov 2015, 15:07 (Ref:3588131) | #184 | ||
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4 Nov 2015, 18:01 (Ref:3588174) | #185 | |
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I assume WRC is popular enough in other countries to justify the WRC program. In the UK, I wouldn't say it gets any coverage.
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4 Nov 2015, 20:24 (Ref:3588222) | #186 | |
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Loeb's name might have had a hand in that. He is pretty well-known.
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4 Mar 2016, 20:15 (Ref:3619990) | #187 | |
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Back in July last year, what BMW stated for being number one request before seriously considering Formula E, was to kill off the ridiculous mid race car swapping. Well now that seems to be high on the agenda of proceedings (along the line), so who knows maybe BMW starts to swim to that direction after all?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123119 However, as the title says the series is sticking to it's dumbed down spec formula and backtracking in their words of opening up things, so the technological factor still stays millenia away from LMP1, electricity or not. Elsewhere, since last time this thread had posts, there have been some "insider" talk of BMW looking at LM again, but nothing substantial. |
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3 Aug 2016, 21:52 (Ref:3663338) | #188 | |
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3 Aug 2016, 22:23 (Ref:3663343) | #189 | ||
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No surprise, just keep the carrot dangling that much longer.
Although there was a mention of the potential for new factories in LMP1-H in RCE's LMP1 regulation review last month. I forget who exactly was quoted (it was one of the "Big 3"), but the supposedly full-electric entry was a non-starter because the manufacturer behind it wanted to use, amongst other things, permanent 4WD and torque vectoring. Sound familiar? I'll dig up the exact quote if anyone is really interested, but it just sounded like an excuse as I read it. |
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3 Aug 2016, 22:48 (Ref:3663351) | #190 | |
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It's not really a carrot, BMW has made it clear that they want to use hydrogen. As long as the rules don't allow it they won't enter, it's that simple.
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4 Aug 2016, 01:22 (Ref:3663364) | #191 | ||
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I don't think that it's illegal if a manufacturer puts money behind it, but with the current technology, hydrogen just isn't feasible from a performance stand point. Hydrogen fuel cells are in their infancy (even with the rumors that Audi will make a hydrogen fuel cell car if BMW don't), and BMW's 7 Series V12 powered by liquid hydrogen only makes a bit more than 260bhp, which frankly is puny for a 6 liter V12, and liquid hydrogen has very low energy density.
This is more of a case that if it doesn't make sense for the 2018 regs, no manufacturer will commit to it. Even Audi say that their proposed hydrogen fuel cell LMP1 is several years away from being close to reality. |
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5 Aug 2016, 05:37 (Ref:3663525) | #192 | ||
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5 Aug 2016, 06:23 (Ref:3663531) | #193 | ||
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8 Aug 2016, 12:46 (Ref:3664332) | #194 | |
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They are the jewel of denial. Turns out that the rumored hydrogen novel is fact, not fiction. And I have the inside scoop on who the author is.
BMW will just come in when the rules are favourable to them. They wont come for a fist fight with Audi and Porsche right now. |
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9 Aug 2016, 12:38 (Ref:3664597) | #195 | |
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9 Aug 2016, 12:43 (Ref:3664598) | #196 | |
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9 Aug 2016, 14:15 (Ref:3664620) | #197 | |
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http://www.forze-delft.nl/forze-vii/
More info |
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9 Aug 2016, 15:58 (Ref:3664652) | #198 | |||
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10 Aug 2016, 06:10 (Ref:3664818) | #199 | |
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Unrelated.
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10 Aug 2016, 14:06 (Ref:3664896) | #200 | ||
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But not the same I believe as this: http://inmotion.tue.nl Lord knows what's all going on with these possible/potential Garage 56 entrants... |
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