Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[chunterer]

Ahh, this is a cracking thread!!

Ok Allan thanks for setting me straight!! You might be onto something re French racers. There may well have been two racing but there's even less readily available info about that series than there is for ETC or BTCC around the time!

I know that Rene Metge ran a Marlboro liveried car in the 1982 French series but this was an older car (possibly the old Grp 2 car later seen in modsaloons in UK) and may not have been run by TWR?

Here is a list of people I can think of that might help us identify further stuff and whom might be tempted to come on and have a chat with us:

Engineers
Ken Clarke (if he's remembered anything else!)
Allan Scott (TWR ROVER you probably know him well!)

Drivers
Jeff Allam
Steve Soper
Peter Lovett - Works TWR driver until mid 1984. Is he still around?
Dave Carvell - Dave and anyone he knows who helped with setting up his ex Sanyo/Mobil Vitesse in 1987 BTCC. Has already posted at beginning of thread but may put us in touch with others?
Mike O Brien - sure he ran an ex TWR Vitesse in 1986?
Dennis Leech - suggestions on this thread are his last Vitesse was TWR built, or at least it had TWR chassis mods and engine?
Kevin Eaton - ran the last TWR chassis built (apparently 020), seen earlier in this thread in different liveries.
Brian Chatfield - ran ex Bastos car for couple of years in BTCC and modsaloons
Bill Griffin (or son Steve?) - Ran a Marlboro liveried Vitesse in 1987 for a bit and is a key part of the puzzle concerning chassi 005!!!

Another possible source could be John Davenport who was ARG Motorsport Manager until 1985? He'll know about your car Allan/TWR ROVER as he was in charge of ops when your car when it ran as new?

Any members know how to contact/re-contact any of these guys?

[TWR ROVER]

thanks for that...ill alert Allan Scott to this website,he has so many fasinating TWR stories,he might tell a few.
Also someone must remember #005 when it was privateered back in the UK,we think Gerry Marshall was the last one to race it?
When i work out how to post pictures ill put a few up of a restoration in progress...also a few of #18 in action,out here in the colonies we dont have many old car museums so we just have to race them!

[chunterer]

Excellent, look forward to seeing the images!!

It's better that proper cars are kept running rather than left sitting around in a garage or museum!

[terence]

Originally Posted by TWR ROVER

thanks for that...ill alert Allan Scott to this website,he has so many fasinating TWR stories,he might tell a few.
Also someone must remember #005 when it was privateered back in the UK,we think Gerry Marshall was the last one to race it?
When i work out how to post pictures ill put a few up of a restoration in progress...also a few of #18 in action,out here in the colonies we dont have many old car museums so we just have to race them!

Gerry was,nt the last to race it,Kevin Eaton was.When Arthur first bought the car from Kevin ,he was told that it was one of the Bastos cars,hence the paint job.!!Also,when we took delivery of it ,it was base white,with the flouresent red/pink nose/tail.

[chrisgram]

I think you've missed Denny Hulme

[bigears]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Excellent, look forward to seeing the images!!

It's better that proper cars are kept running rather than left sitting around in a garage or museum!

How about seeing your images?

*I hope you know what I meant here!

[GBRM]

Whoa, whoa , whoa!

Gerry Marshall drove (maybe considered as a race!!) the Ex-Bastos car that Colin Pearcy bought in the late '80s/early '90s. Firstly it was when CP owned more MGs than Rover could build and secondly it was a proper TWR/Bastos car, the fire extinguisher and pipes were a very good NOS system (hello Tom??) allegdely.

GM raced the car in a nothing sort of race and if you want the details I can dig them out and maybe we can add this thread to the Chassis section and I have all the relevant numbers.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Whoa, whoa , whoa!

Gerry Marshall drove (maybe considered as a race!!) the Ex-Bastos car that Colin Pearcy bought in the late '80s/early '90s. Firstly it was when CP owned more MGs than Rover could build and secondly it was a proper TWR/Bastos car, the fire extinguisher and pipes were a very good NOS system (hello Tom??) allegdely.

GM raced the car in a nothing sort of race and if you want the details I can dig them out and maybe we can add this thread to the Chassis section and I have all the relevant numbers.

Yes please do post the chassis number GBRM, good to have you come on here with this info.

As you may have seen since you posted there is a chassis thread underway but it has stalled because we needed more quantitative info on specific chassis.

Note to allcomers!! Anyone who can help or knows someone who can please join the debate!!

[ken clarke]

Chassis 005 History.

Built in 1983 as Left hand drive car for Eddy Joosen to compete in Selected rounds of Belgian touring car championship & selected ETC rounds. 1st race, Zandvoort 1983, car painted White with black interior. 2nd race, Belgian Grand Prix support @ Spa, now painted cream & brown & sposored by 'Barclay' cigarettes. 3rd race, German Grand Prix support race, (Barclay). 4th race, Spa 24 hours, (Barclay). Other races during 83. Also Driven in 83 by Steve Soper & Rene Metge. I was there at all these races.

1984, became Marc Duez French Production championship car, now painted in Marlboro colours.

1985, became French Production championship test car for John Louis Schlesser.

Never owned by Kevin Eaton or raced by Gerry Marshall. May have been owned by GM as a motor trader. Gerry brokered many race car deals.

This is correct to the best of my knowledge. Certainly 1983/4/5 are 100% correct.

Hope this helps.

I have some pictures somewhere of the car in its original white livery & in its 'Barclay' colours.

The grey & red Kevin Eaton car is chassis no 020. Last Group A vitesse built.

Regards,

Ken Clarke.

[chunterer]

Nice Ken!! Thank you for this bit of info, I guess there is a wealth of knowledge of these cars that you might be able to help further with whenever you have time!!

So 005 was actually the Barclay car then!! Wow.

When you say it started out as white, would it also have been at the '83 Donny ETC round at the start of the year? I remember that one of the 3 TWR cars entered for that was a white one?

[GBRM]

I'll speak to Vince tomorrow, he's helping me build my racer and he worked for Colin and prepared the car. Dad sourced the car for Colin, so any records might have been in his name. Dad definitely drove the car (I'm sure he did an MG sprint in it, will check with Vince) and he supplied it to Arthur Carter, like a lot of other cars in Arthur's collection.

Also, when the TWR sale happened a few years ago Dad actually did a lot of work for the auctioneers and provided the information on a lot of the cars. Apart from having a great memory on race cars he always liked to get one over on Tom after the '79 accident, especially as he thought the Rover contract was in the bag for him and BL didn't think he'd ever recover from the accident and gave the deal to Jeff Allam and Dave Price and then subsequently to TWR, not happy!!

Will re-post tomorrow about 005 then - Gregor Marshall

[TWR ROVER]

wow!...thanks Ken ,thats exactly the information I wanted...what a varied and interesting history....nice to get it right.
You must be amused at times at some of the theories that float about!...its a bit like putting a jig saw puzzle together without all the pieces,certainly now we have filled those critical gaps.
So ,as this car ended its TWR days as a test car for JLS in 1985,there must have been at least one other Marlboro livered car in 1985?,which chassis number was that?...if so that would confirm what we have noticed about the Marboro cars in the pictures previously posted(one having a black interior and one white)are probably pictures of different cars.
It would be very interesting to see a picture of the car in its Barclay days etc.
Once again thanks,Ken.
Allan Dippie.

[terence]

Having just checked my records,I must appolgize for the confusion,the car I did for Arthur Carter was bought from Brian Chatfield,not Kevin Eaton.I think it is possible that Gerry brokered the deal,but then again it,s unlikely.Once again,sorry for any confusion.The car that Colin owned was the one raced Spa in the 90s in Barry Sidery-Smiths races ,Arthur had nothing to do with that one at all.I will repeat what I,ve already said for those who missed it first time around.When the car was delivered it was in Dayglo/White,we were told ,by Brian ,that it was originallya Bastos car,hence the paint job.The Interior,White ,was never touched.

[KA]

Originally Posted by TWR ROVER

wow!...thanks Ken ,thats exactly the information I wanted...what a varied and interesting history....nice to get it right.
You must be amused at times at some of the theories that float about!...its a bit like putting a jig saw puzzle together without all the pieces,certainly now we have filled those critical gaps.
So ,as this car ended its TWR days as a test car for JLS in 1985,there must have been at least one other Marlboro livered car in 1985?,which chassis number was that?...if so that would confirm what we have noticed about the Marboro cars in the pictures previously posted(one having a black interior and one white)are probably pictures of different cars.
It would be very interesting to see a picture of the car in its Barclay days etc.
Once again thanks,Ken.
Allan Dippie.

There's a pic of the Barclay car at Spa in 83 on Racingsportscars.com

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-019.jpg

[KA]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Having just checked my records,I must appolgize for the confusion,the car I did for Arthur Carter was bought from Brian Chatfield,not Kevin Eaton.I think it is possible that Gerry brokered the deal,but then again it,s unlikely.Once again,sorry for any confusion.The car that Colin owned was the one raced Spa in the 90s in Barry Sidery-Smiths races ,Arthur had nothing to do with that one at all.I will repeat what I,ve already said for those who missed it first time around.When the car was delivered it was in Dayglo/White,we were told ,by Brian ,that it was originallya Bastos car,hence the paint job.The Interior,White ,was never touched.

That's interesting- if the Arthur Carter bought the car from Chatfield in Marlboro Dayglo colours, then presumably more than one Rover must have passed through Chatfield's hands, as the car he raced in modsaloons and sporadically in BTCC around 1987/8 was definitely in Bastos colours, less the signwriting- think it's pictured somewhere back in this thread?

[ken clarke]

There you go, Barclay car, LHD. I do not beleive the interior of this car was ever white. All the race cars during '83 & '84 were painted satin black inside & had steel cages. All the cars from '85 were white inside & had alloy cages, chassis no 13 -20.

Ther were in total 3 Marlboro sponsored 'Group A' based cars. Chassis no's 1, 5 & 13. Only 13 had a white interior.

Ken.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

That's interesting- if the Arthur Carter bought the car from Chatfield in Marlboro Dayglo colours, then presumably more than one Rover must have passed through Chatfield's hands, as the car he raced in modsaloons and sporadically in BTCC around 1987/8 was definitely in Bastos colours, less the signwriting- think it's pictured somewhere back in this thread?

Indeed, then maybe this 'Marlboro' car was the one i've been banging on about that Bill Griffin ran for a while, maybe owned by Brian then?. Brian and Bill were in the same area at the time?

Originally Posted by ken clarke

There you go, Barclay car, LHD. I do not beleive the interior of this car was ever white. All the race cars during '83 & '84 were painted satin black inside & had steel cages. All the cars from '85 were white inside & had alloy cages, chassis no 13 -20.

Ther were in total 3 Marlboro sponsored 'Group A' based cars. Chassis no's 1, 5 & 13. Only 13 had a white interior.

Ken.

Again, thanks for all this Ken. You must think we're all mum and dad!!

One question i'd like to ask is as the first Marlboro car was 001, was that built around the time of the 2 Sanyo Grp 1 cars in 81/82 or were all 20 SD1's you know of built for Group A (and the odd French ST) in late '82 onwards?

Figured there must've been 2 Marlboro's but another piece of jigsaw filled with your info that there were 3!
(So is this right 1982 Metge 001, 1984/85 Duez 005, 1985/86 Shless 013?)

You also say 13-20 were done in 1985? 8 cars, criikey that's almost half the total build!! Presumably a few of those must have been built for paying customers? So were none built in 1986 at all?

[chunterer]

Gregor, thank you also for offering up what you know! Good to have you join us discussing all things history based.

I'm hope that over time you are able to provide us with some stories about your dad during the course of particular threads!

[terence]

Arthur did buy another car from Chatfield,it was to one from Norway/Sweden,plain white.A woman raced it for a while ,I think it was actually bought new and shipped over to Norway though.

[KA]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Arthur did buy another car from Chatfield,it was to one from Norway/Sweden,plain white.A woman raced it for a while ,I think it was actually bought new and shipped over to Norway though.

I wonder if that could be the ex-Bornebusch car? I'm pretty sure that one was discussed early in this thread- If so, from memory, it appeared sporadically in the 1987 ETCC in the hands of Swedish driver Kaj Bornebusch. He then ran at least a part-season in the 1988 ETCC in an RS500, but the Rover also turned up once or twice driven by (I think) his daughter.

[terence]

Originally Posted by KA

I wonder if that could be the ex-Bornebusch car? I'm pretty sure that one was discussed early in this thread- If so, from memory, it appeared sporadically in the 1987 ETCC in the hands of Swedish driver Kaj Bornebusch. He then ran at least a part-season in the 1988 ETCC in an RS500, but the Rover also turned up once or twice driven by (I think) his daughter.

Absolutly correct,couldnt remember the name

[ken clarke]

Hi, you misunderstand, 13 - 20 were built from 1985 on, '85 & '86. Last car, 020 was built May 1986.

Ken.

[TWR ROVER]

Originally Posted by KA

There's a pic of the Barclay car at Spa in 83 on Racingsportscars.com

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-019.jpg

thanks KA,thats an interesting picture to have and yes as Ken says LHD then,black interior with steel steel cage...thats how we recieved the car (wereas 018 built in '85 has white interior ,alloy cage.)
Feel we are getting very close now to being able to identify the build date and accurate TWR history of most SDI's as well as the post TWR history of many and indeed their present ownership and wereabouts....a valuable and important thing to be able to document.

[ken clarke]

018 was built in 1986. It was the '2nd' car, driven by Armin Hahne, Jeff Allam,Denny Hulme, J.L.Schlesser,& Gianfranco Brancatelli.

Ken.

[TWR ROVER]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

018 was built in 1986. It was the '2nd' car, driven by Armin Hahne, Jeff Allam,Denny Hulme, J.L.Schlesser,& Gianfranco Brancatelli.

Ken.

thanks for that Ken,one of the so called "evolution cars"...what were the changes to them and how many evolution cars were built?