2024 Brazilian Grand Prix Weekend

[Greem]

Damon Hill making some great points on the post race show. Max drove imperiously, with no mucking about.

Why he can't do that all the time is a mystery to me.

[FFSM]

Originally Posted by Greem

Damon Hill making some great points on the post race show. Max drove imperiously, with no mucking about.

Why he can't do that all the time is a mystery to me.

I think those conditions tend to level the field a lot. Yes, there will be one or two teams that benefit from good fortune, or having a very good set up (and one or two that really suffer), but for me it shows up in abilities of the drivers when it's wet.

Also, Max is a lot better at overtaking than he is at defending!

[Guthrie]

WDC is settled. Lando bottled it but WCC race is very much still ON.

[broadrun96]

ESPN completely and totally ruined F1 for the US in one race. Numbers were already falling in true viewership and they skipped on a third and then left the audio off for multiple laps. But they don't want F1 running after their cash cow of college and pro hand egg games

[Plantagenet]

Fab race - my favourite of 24’. Max simply imperious.
Very strong claim alert - could his first lap be up there with Senna at Donnington in 1993. I think he made 7 places, simply brilliant.

[Sodemo]

Well, any slim chance Norris had of the championship must have gone now.

[flatlandsman]

First race watched for a very long time, some of it enjoyable, a lot of it dreary, but that seems the nor,m in F1 some of the time, a clear and obvious winner and some very poor deriving by people in the rain which I find interesting too.

I hope there was a problem with Strolls car as that was pathetic, Bearman showed immense inexperience, some poor moves from Piastri, Lawson being petulant with Perez and roll on your back with Max was sad.

But as times it looked very tricky there, and I also find it sad that drivers are seemingly incapable of doing what they want and are basically being driven by people on the wall and back home, I find that frustrating, that so little decision making on what to do is taken from the driver, I understand why, but it is and should be a skill. and it is being utterly lost.

[chillibowl]

What are the stewards up to?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

What are the stewards up to?

Dinner reservations then determine how many of the field will be penalized tomorrow morning for false start. Or at least I see something about start procedure something. Did MB get anything for the tire pressure adjustment yet too? Have to wait another 90 min to actually see the first 30 laps cause ESPN sucks

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

What are the stewards up to?

Trying to be faultless, but instead showing they lack self-confidence in their own ability and authority.
They seem to be unsure, or is it waiting on being told what to do from someone not even at the track?
It is weird.

As for Lando's championship chances it looks pretty much gone.
Not that I ever thought it was really on. But all those talking it up have really had a punch in the ribs.
We still have three events and a sprint, but it would take something quite major (meaning a huge negative for Max) now to eradicate his advantage. It could happen but unlikely.
Still, stranger things have happened.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Dinner reservations then determine how many of the field will be penalized tomorrow morning for false start. Or at least I see something about start procedure something. Did MB get anything for the tire pressure adjustment yet too? Have to wait another 90 min to actually see the first 30 laps cause ESPN sucks

MB were fined $5,000 for each car; although the pressures were found to be within permitted tolerances, they should not have been worked on under normal circumstances. The Stewards made allowance for the fact that it wasn't a normal circumstance which is why there was only the fines and no other penalty.

They also stated that this was exceptional, and in no way created a precedence.


No documents yet about start procedure yet.


Edit: as I was typing this, Norris' document was posted and the result is that he was reprimanded and given a $5,000 fine (the FIA claims to be short of funds). The same for Russell, because both drivers were on the front row and this caused the other drivers to follow suit. No other penalties were given for that.

[Tourer]

Well that really was a wild and crazy weekend, with the disappointment of yesterday's washed out Qualifying being easily cured by today's postponed qualifying and the race.

We've all seen something really special today as that is only the 5th time that someone has won an F1 GP from as far back on the grid as Max was. OK, the red flag stop helped but given his margin of victory, and the rate he closed up on the lead group, I reckon he'd have ended up in the lead regardless. Today was a timely reminder after recent shenanigans that he is a truly special talent.

Looks like Lando's bid for the title is effectively over but he and the team will have learnt a lot this year - I think we'll see a much sharper McLaren next year, although whether the car is as strong compared to rivals remains to be seen.

Lastly, even though we had a pretty special race, I really have to question the wisdom of going to São Paulo at this time of year. We've had rain impact the event a few times no, and while rain can happen, according to the Earl of Google, there's less rain in the middle of the year and that might be a better time?

[Teretonga]

Mark Huges has dissected Lando's race and says he made two major errors.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/m...-brazilian-gp/

But as it plays out it looks as if the Max-Ocon-Gasly train has simply benefitted from the red flag and cut through those who were ahead before the red flag to clean out the podium together.

Ultimately that is nothing but luck.
You can't control it.

But it doesn't take away anything from the RBR/Alpine victory.
All three drove quick clean races without penalties and major driving mistakes to take out the podium.
Their congratulations are all well deserved.

[Lancsbreaker]

Only saw the C4 highlights - busy hospital visiting earlier - but I have to say that although I'm no Verstappen fan, he drove well there.... lucky with the timing of VSC and SC, but that's motor racing.


Huge Kudos to Alpine for their result!

[seanyb505]

One of the things I've always conceded to Hamilton's run of success over the years was his ability to either create luck or take advantage of opportunities given. I think the 3 time world champ did the same today, and the hunter failed to execute. Both from the driver and team side of things.

Looking forward to the final triple header for 2024.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

MB were fined $5,000 for each car; although the pressures were found to be within permitted tolerances, they should not have been worked on under normal circumstances. The Stewards made allowance for the fact that it wasn't a normal circumstance which is why there was only the fines and no other penalty.

They also stated that this was exceptional, and in no way created a precedence.


No documents yet about start procedure yet.


Edit: as I was typing this, Norris' document was posted and the result is that he was reprimanded and given a $5,000 fine (the FIA claims to be short of funds). The same for Russell, because both drivers were on the front row and this caused the other drivers to follow suit. No other penalties were given for that.

Thanks, US media has left the chat completely after the race ended. Had to wait for pickleball to finish late to start the coverage late here since the actual race was cut off

Love the it's the regs and a technical directive but well it's weird so rules aren't so serious. McLaren took their wheels off to check, Sky didn't show any other teams. Everything on TV said aborted start before they moved so wouldn't you assume they told teams before TV so they were cleared to go around. But the FIA have been looking like clowns every since they didn't think to have someone learn from Charlie. Almost all the US fans I know watch Cota, Vegas and Monaco, and hate the crying, a few have said just turn the dang radios off and make them drive with a sign board and I have to agree. Doesn't add anything and make the teams stop micro managing to the point of when to blink


I hated the cheating radio signals to swap back in the day but hate hate the swap calls on the radio now. Pass your teammate or at least give it a decent chance but this weekend Piastri was faster faster and got screwed. Guess Red Bull solved that by having a slow guy but they've done it before too, and worse directing the other team. I get telling Lawson it's Max and let him decide what it's worth but direct radio call is Busch League stuff for kids

[Richard C]

A few thoughts I didn't get out earlier...

1. What what Stroll thinking by trying to drive through the gravel vs. paved road? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have seen in an long time.

2. Some rules are meant to create randomness or to try to destroy predictability (such as using at least two tire compounds), but other create this in negative ways. So we have another somewhat random result due to the ability to get a free tire change while under Red Flag. Will the rule makers look at this in the near future?

Richard

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Richard C

2. Some rules are meant to create randomness or to try to destroy predictability (such as using at least two tire compounds), but other create this in negative ways. So we have another somewhat random result due to the ability to get a free tire change while under Red Flag. Will the rule makers look at this in the near future?

why should they?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Skam85

why should they?

What is the purpose of a red flag? Should it have this much of an impact on the race results? Does anyone actually support the ability for free tire change (other than whoever has recently benefited from it)?

It's easy to say that this is just part of racing because it's part of the rules. But it has become sort of an unofficial "joker" that is applied in a favorable but completely random way that is contrary to what a red flag is supposed to be about. I think the ability to fix "like for like" to ensure cars are "safe to race" has reached an absurd destination with respect to red flags.

How to fix? Allow teams to replace items on cars, but for some list of actions that (potentially those that are typically expected to happen part and parcel to a normal pitstop), impose some type of penalty. The easiest might be a positional adjustment on the restart. Teams will be free to NOT make these changes and not take any penalties if they want. If they are required to make the changes to make the car "safe", then accept the penalty as that is what they would do during when on-track (such as pitting to replace worn or incorrect tires).

Things like getting a reduced pit delta during something like VSC it gift enough. But the random gift provided by the red flag tire change scenario is easily addressable.

Richard

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

What is the purpose of a red flag? Should it have this much of an impact on the race results? Does anyone actually support the ability for free tire change (other than whoever has recently benefited from it)?

It's easy to say that this is just part of racing because it's part of the rules. But it has become sort of an unofficial "joker" that is applied in a favorable but completely random way that is contrary to what a red flag is supposed to be about. I think the ability to fix "like for like" to ensure cars are "safe to race" has reached an absurd destination with respect to red flags.

How to fix? Allow teams to replace items on cars, but for some list of actions that (potentially those that are typically expected to happen part and parcel to a normal pitstop), impose some type of penalty. The easiest might be a positional adjustment on the restart. Teams will be free to NOT make these changes and not take any penalties if they want. If they are required to make the changes to make the car "safe", then accept the penalty as that is what they would do during when on-track (such as pitting to replace worn or incorrect tires).

Things like getting a reduced pit delta during something like VSC it gift enough. But the random gift provided by the red flag tire change scenario is easily addressable.

Richard

Apparently, it has been an issue in the past. In past events driver comments included that they would prefer not to have the change allowed, but in earlier decades one of the reasons was that people could make changes to cars that were damaged etc. so people could get back on the grid.
That enormous crash incident at La Source at Spa one year a couple of decades ago is an example.

But what it does is throw strategy up in the air and become some sort of Lucky dip.
That might give you an unusual result but is it fair sport or are the rules simple gamming the teams and drivers.
If it changes what the result would otherwise have been then it seriously does alter the result and is allowing such activity just and reasonable in a major sport if it can have an effect on points and the outcome of a championship.

That is the question to be answered but like a lot of strange things that touch sporting ethics it seems the FIA doesn't want to look at it.
They would rather have the possibility a random incident upsetting and overthrowing a result to keep the unpredictability narrative flowing.

Just another question you could raise about the way the rulebook works.

[Skam85]

Meh, there's no reason to change it. Some people are benefitted by SC timing, others benefit from a red flag timing. It is what it is. I like the randomness, plus Norris and Russell's teams were dumb for boxing at the end of the VSC and deserved to be on the wrong end of 'luck'.

[Akrapovic]

It's motor racing. If they disallowed tyre changes then it would've screwed Max and the Alpines disproportionally too. It is what it is and it's part of the sport.

As Skam said - the red flag looked like it was coming. If not for weather then someone was going to bin it, and that's exactly what happened. It was predictable and it appears Lando and George made the calls correct from the cockpit but McLaren and Mercedes chose to pit them anyway.

What was really interesting was that passing was almost impossible. Max couldn't pass Charles or those around him. He couldn't even pass Ocon. But once he was in the lead he pulled 20 seconds effortlessly. Max recognized this was an issue so solved the problem on the SC restart with the move on Ocon. That move, whilst a good pass, is an underrated bit of race craft. Without it I genuinely don't think Max would've won the race.

Once Lando was back in the pack his race was also done. He'd have been 4th at best without the mistake, and obviously he did make a mistake and that was it.

It's also clear that neither McLaren driver is quite ready to challenge for a title properly. Piastri has looked mega at some points this year, but made as many errors as Lando in Brazil. 2025 should be interesting for both of them.

[Plantagenet]

Probably not a topic for here, but the current approach to red flag or SC races if the weather has got worse does seem a new thing. Not just F1, I thought is rendered LeMans a relative sprint race this year.

But in F1, it seems to be because seemingly everyone hates the wet spec tyres. When they red flagged the race, the vast majority of drivers were still on intermediates. So, we've sort of got to a point that if it is considered to be too wet for intermediates, we need to intervene with SCs and red flags, which seems a bit strange if I'm honest.

[PhilipR]

There is no perfect solution to red flags and SC/VSCs. There will always be winners and losers. However we have these instances more often nowadays and they tend to have a bigger impact on championships than they used to when they were used sporadically.

As for the race - great race by Ver seems to have been only one capable of being decisive when it mattered. Well deserved.

[FFSM]

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

But in F1, it seems to be because seemingly everyone hates the wet spec tyres. When they red flagged the race, the vast majority of drivers were still on intermediates. So, we've sort of got to a point that if it is considered to be too wet for intermediates, we need to intervene with SCs and red flags, which seems a bit strange if I'm honest.

That's an interesting point. The thought had crossed my mind that at times that it seemed very wet for them to be running intermediates.