[WEC] Toyota Hypercar Discussion

[Simmi]

Looks a bit better in this new livery.




It's growing on me. Just something as daft as changing the wheels would have made a massive difference I think.

[chernaudi]

Looks better than I thought it would, and I like the more powerful engine it's got, too.

[chernaudi]

I also know that it's probably floating around somewhere on the ACO's or FIA's sites in their tech regs section, but anyone know what the max wheel width is for LMH? Toyota are running the same 330mm wide tires and 13x18 wheels as the TS050 did.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I also know that it's probably floating around somewhere on the ACO's or FIA's sites in their tech regs section, but anyone know what the max wheel width is for LMH? Toyota are running the same 330mm wide tires and 13x18 wheels as the TS050 did.

A bit differently worded rule than usually.

[TF110]

Nice looking car, nice looking livery, and a bigger 3.5L V6. Anyone else notice the two white slats on the roof? Looks like a work around for the roof height rules.

[Bentley03]

Press release with more piccies, full tech details and quotes here (DSC).

[canaglia]

so it seems that power output from ICE will decrease when front ERS will release power to let the car stay in the 500W limit in any case. For sure that will help with traction and acceleration but should prevent toyota exiting skyrocket from corners compared to not hybrid cars

[P38 in workshop]

The car in racing livery is a very good looking thing.I doubt that I am the only one who remembers when sports prototypes weighed less than 1040Kg though.

[S griffin]

The front end looks like something you would see underwater IMHO

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I’m finding it genuinely baffling - and a little amusing - at just how cross some of us are getting about the Toyota not looking like we want it to look.

Let me start to admit I have not followed prototype racing very closely in recent years but when they announced the Hypercar formula I expected something more road car looking. Like GT1 in the late 90s (Nissan R390, Porsche 911 GT1, Toyota GT-One). For me this new Toyota is just an evolution of existing LMP1.

Is it bad looking? Absolutely not. Did I expect something else? Yes.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Let me start to admit I have not followed prototype racing very closely in recent years but when they announced the Hypercar formula I expected something more road car looking. Like GT1 in the late 90s (Nissan R390, Porsche 911 GT1, Toyota GT-One). For me this new Toyota is just an evolution of existing LMP1.

Is it bad looking? Absolutely not. Did I expect something else? Yes.

Is it bad looking? Absolutely not. Did I expect something else? Yes. Am I disappointed? No.

[Akrapovic]

It looks like an LMP1 that over-ate at Christmas. It's amazing how can see the additional weight on it.

I don't care about it tbh. It isn't ugly. It certainly isn't pretty. But I can understand why people are annoyed. Binning the LMP rules to get a road car and coming back with a far LMP that's slower and messes up every other class. I don't mind the car - I just don't agree with the slowing of the class.

[Mike E]

The car in action! Sounds nice, in V6 turbo sort of way.

https://youtu.be/ndYPiOvnRxY
https://youtu.be/H9M8QXsm0gA

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It looks like an LMP1 that over-ate at Christmas. It's amazing how can see the additional weight on it.

I don't care about it tbh. It isn't ugly. It certainly isn't pretty. But I can understand why people are annoyed. Binning the LMP rules to get a road car and coming back with a far LMP that's slower and messes up every other class. I don't mind the car - I just don't agree with the slowing of the class.

"Dumbing down" the hybrid systems and making the cars portlier was probably the only way the ACO knew how to slow down the LMP1 (now LMH/LMDH) cars to their long established 3:30 second laptimes around Le Mans--and even then I think they may be fortunate to slow the cars to current LMP2 laptimes for all we know.

But then again, look at GTE. GTE-Pro cars--which are now hybrids of GT1 and GT2 cars as far as tech regs--are much heavier than GT1 cars (1225+kg vs 1100kg) and have to run steel brake rotors (carbon or carbon ceramic was allowed in GT1), but now they're as fast or faster due to better areo, suspension R&D and especially tires, which are also narrower than allowed in GT1.

I don't think it's all gloom and doom, and maybe slowing down all classes a bit isn't a bad thing, given the relative abundance of FCYs and local yellows/slow zones compared to like say Le Mans in '06 (yes, I'm aware that slow zones didn't exist back then--it was just local yellows or pace car lead FCYs).

Also in some ways, the GR010 reminds me kind of what I'd expect a modern Bentley Speed 8 would look like or even an Audi R10 with a roof. Not to mention (though not required by the rules) it does look vaguely street legal and can maybe seat two people, though provided that they're really good friends. It overall looks better proportioned than the last gen LMP1s because of being 2000mm wide.

As far as slowing down the classes, as long as straightline speeds are different between LMP1/H/DH, LMP2 and GTE/GTLM (which has been the main problem since the 2011 power cut/engine downsizing), I don't see a problem with slowing the cars down. Besides, watching old ALMS videos does make me yearn for cars that are gutsier and simpler than the last gen LMP1s.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Mike E

The car in action! Sounds nice, in V6 turbo sort of way.

https://youtu.be/ndYPiOvnRxY
https://youtu.be/H9M8QXsm0gA

Thanks for that. Sounds and looks really good! It’s almost Ford GT kinda vibe.

[Lutzvic]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ype-of-racing/

I love the way they elegantly ignore to mention that the LMP2s received a power reduction....
the generic class is made slower not to outperform the HYPER class....
todays racing is all about cost effectiveness ....it is really Toyota style...like their road cars...never the fastest, never good looking, but reliable and good value for the money....
somehow it is sad in motorsport, which should be fascinating

[Adam43]

Well it’s an article about Toyota in the LMH class and the differences between their LMP1 car and the LMH. Why go there, we all know.

Are we going to get this in every sportscar article that doesn’t mention what you can’t get past?

[Adam43]

The interesting bits for me are that lift and coast to save fuel is gone and how they won’t be able to blast past the other classes out of corners.

[chernaudi]

Maybe instead of seeing the Toyotas blast out of corners the the old Audi R10 and Peugeot 908 diesels and top end peter out fairly quickly (get to top speed quickly but stay there) due to hybrid power drop off, it'll be like the old days (pre-2014) where you can out-drag slower cars. That is, if there's a significant top end advantage between LMH/LMP1, LMP2 and GTE. Hopefully there will be given that LMHs have nearly 700 hp constantly, LMP2 is dialed back to 560 or so, and GTE is still at 470-500bph.

[Adam43]

I would imagine there will be a top end advantage, but quotes in the article speculate that a lot of passing will be under braking which comes with challenges too.

Another point made is that the one aero package will be more suited to Le Mans than the other tracks.

[chernaudi]

Well, that seems to be like the pre-2011 days where teams made an aero package that largely suited LM, but then got dirtied up for the sprint races with gurneys, dive planes, more rear wing, etc. Think stuff like the Audi R8/10/15, 2008 and earlier Peugeot 908, and even Peugeot's 2011 car post-Le Mans that year when they ran a slightly modified LM aero kit.

Then again, even before that Peugeot ('09/10) ran a different nose on the 908 than anywhere else that was a LM exclusive fitting.

I also think that the one aero kit logic (as well as the weight increase) was to address criticism from fans over how the cars looked with the dorsal fins and the bulbous front fenders/wheel arches for their LM kits. Heavier cars are harder to flip over given the increase in mass, and having to standardize on one main aero kit means you have to make it work to a degree everywhere, not just at LM.

[hondafan37]

Endurance-info wonder:
Does a high-performance prototype have to be pretty?

https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/un...-il-etre-beau/

[TF110]

Interesting design in the floor area. Im interested in seeing this car perform. I wonder how bop will come into play as well. The difference between this new car and the grandfathered "Alpine" Oreca.

[chernaudi]

Toyota are predicting at LM they "should" be about 10 seconds a lap slower. If that's race pace, that's 2006-like speeds. If they mean qualifying, that's current LMP2 pace when driven by a pro.

Toyota didn't clarify and also, since there's no lift and coast anymore, the LMH/LMDH cars will probably be able to run closer to qualifying pace in the races.

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by canaglia

so it seems that power output from ICE will decrease when front ERS will release power to let the car stay in the 500W limit in any case. For sure that will help with traction and acceleration but should prevent toyota exiting skyrocket from corners compared to not hybrid cars

..on the other hand the GR010 won t have the top speed deficit at the end of the straights compared to LMP2 as TS050 did..it is also a good thing.