MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

It was pleasing to see 60 entries at the Daybreaker just as was the 66 at Catlins last year. Lets hope the trend continues

Racer Mike, I am sure that you along with many other will be pleased to see that the trend has continued with 90 entries having been received for the upcoming Catlins Rally. Maybe we are coming back towards the days of entry lists being closed off at 120.

[Racer Mike]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Racer Mike, I am sure that you along with many other will be pleased to see that the trend has continued with 90 entries having been received for the upcoming Catlins Rally. Maybe we are coming back towards the days of entry lists being closed off at 120.

Its great to see southern man but lets not forget that these events are run by car clubs and enthusiasts like Roger Laird, my point is that why doesnt our sport look at the way these events are supported in our current climate, not running a national championship that has 25 cars spread over four classes.

[Racer Mike]

Anyone seen this letter that has come out and thoughts?


NZ MOTOR RACING – A SPORT IN CRISIS
Prologue
The writer has not been involved in the sport for several years now and acknowledges that handicap (or benefit) in drafting this paper. Looking from the outside it is clearly in turmoil with what was the premier category torn asunder and support categories either no longer existing e.g. Porsche and Formula Ford, or mere shadows of them former selves. The one exception to this being TRS, which can now legitimately claim to be the premier category in the MSNZ, stable. No doubt largely due to the professional discipline and resources of Toyota. The new SuperTourer product is now clearly the greatest attraction for owners, drivers, sponsors and spectators. I do however question its viability as a stand alone product.
Of course I know not what strategic and business planning processes are being worked through but I will not let that deter me from proposing a complete makeover. It is acknowledged that the problem is not unique to NZ with even FIA categories in deep bother. This is largely as a result of the GFC but the aftermath of that is not going away any time soon so get used to managing within it. Is it appropriate that the promotions company drives the sport?
This paper is confined to Tier 1 categories and events. The lower levels seem to be alive and well. When I refer to product it is in the context of Tier 1 categories, events and people.
The current product is jaded, same old, same old and needs a paradigm shift of categories, events and people. It is not a time to be footling around with Quaife v Hollinger et al issues. Whilst TRS is admired let us accept that NZ, like AU, is a tin top society. Sadly, we do not have the sophistication of Europeans. If a product is to be commercially viable it must play to its audience. The product cannot be taken seriously if the sport’s major attraction is playing in another sandpit.
1 The Categories
A. Premium Categories
[Sponsor] SuperTourers (From 2012/13)
Germane to any of this is integrating SuperTourers into the MSNZ stable not only assuaging their egos by recognizing them as the star category but deploying some of their good people in meaningful roles and giving them a disproportionate share of the financial cake (small as they may be). Almost the entire latest investment in NZ motor racing has been into this category. The sport’s leading competitors be they owners or drivers have demonstrated their disenchantment with the current MSNZ product by voting with their feet. Sure the end is nigh for Commodore and Falcon but other world cars will take their place and we should tag on to AU for make extension.
NZV8s (2012/13 only)
That brings into question the place of the new generation NZV8. I have constructed many such space frame cars and do believe myself to be knowledgeable enough to form a view on their respective merits. All I can say is that the NZV8 is indeed an unfortunate experiment no further advanced technically than an old OSCA car. I was incredulous at the low cost numbers being bandied about for them. I know what they cost. It would be farcical to see them in the company of SuperTourers. However as a new plan is rolled out the old cars probably have a season left in them. Appropriate resource needs to be appointed now to reconcile the technical/parity issues.
TOYOTA Racing Series (From 2012/13)
The good offices of Toyota have ensured the success this currently is and it should just be left alone for them to manage.
Junior Open Wheelers (From 2013/14)
Given the success of TRS is driven off aspiring internationals and a super short series contemplation needs to be given to a replacement for F Ford so that there is a serious single seater category outside the TRS rounds. A wonderful solution would be for Toyota to amortise their on track investment across another category but on a commercial return basis e.g. engine leases and parts supply. Appropriate resource could be part of the package.
[Sponsor] Saloons (From 2013/14)
The NZ market is predominantly compact to mid size saloons with a rapidly increasing Asian presence. To encourage a proliferation of these into the sport a new 2WD category to be developed with engines uprated to a level readily obtainable by all (and capped) and performance equalized by capacity to weight breaks. Modified road cars not BTCC type.
e.g. 1300cc – 750Kg, 1600cc – 900Kg, 2000cc – 1050Kg
As with all categories maximum deployment of controlled parts and strict cost control. Maximum age? This is a very significant exercise ideally headed by senior resource seconded from MSNZ technical.
B. Entertainment Categories
(Sponsor) Utes (From 2013/14)
This is off the wall! As I understand it 25% of new vehicle sales are diesel utilities so there is plenty of cheap stock around. Virtually standard but equalized, as are the V8 utes in AU. Trucks are dying (and an effront to the senses anyway) but the utes would have appeal to a different group of competitors. Once again dedicated resource.
Allcomers (from 2012/13)
No rules, as long as it complies with Schedule A. Impossible to police the vehicles or the people so let them rip, “race what you bring”. A home for the new generation NZV8s. A reasonable contemplation would hopefully be oversubscription with pre qualifying needed.

2 The Events
Clearly 2012/13 would be a transitory year and it could well be that resource limitations push a new category(s) out until 2014/15. Nothing too much wrong with the product evolving so that there is a continual reason to go watch.
Circuits
[75%] of the population (and competitors) are in the North Island so commercially that’s where the events should be. This will mean something like 6 meetings in the North (two at Pukekohe) and 3 in the South from Labour Day through to Easter but not all categories at each meeting e.g. TRS compressed into 5 weekends. A genuine enduro for SuperTourers (circa 500k). The sport can squabble over this.
The Races
The premium categories have this recognized with longer races and a genuine enduro for SuperTourers. The entertainment categories with for example full reverse grid 10 lap derbies for Ute’s split start 6 lap sprints for Allcomers (Ruapuna distance equivalents).
3 People
The same people doing the same thing is likely to produce the same result. This is not a criticism of the current people nor a questioning of their endeavours. Sadly there needs to be, demonstrably, a clean out. No doubt some blood will be spent and some wrong choices made but irrespective of who is right or who is wrong there must be a complete review at all levels of the current players and a refresh.
High levels of delegated authority must be granted to additional dedicated resource to drive the new categories in a professional disciplined manner. It is not a time for “good old boys” to have a chin wag. I have not addressed identifying or securing this resource. A prerequisite would be establishing a new steering group, no not a committee.

[isoskim]

Is there any more to this letter Mike (link/source)? Is a very interesting read!

[Evomike]

Excellent thoughts there

[BackSeat Driver]

When I recieved my copy of the above letter it had been cc'd to some very big names in the industry.

My letter was also signed by the author,
Greg Lancaster
23 July 2012

, and it was titled:

"
Dear Anybody Who Is Interested
"

Everything else was as per the above copy. I enjoyed the read.

[Racer Mike]

The open letter has come from Greg Lancaster.

I agree with the whole thing but lets not limit this paper to just Tier 1. The whole sport is in crisis due to the governing body losing its way and that effects club racers as well. If we dnt have happy club racers then it makes it hard for them to aspire to Tier 1.
There seemed to be some long crisis talks going on in the weekend at Speedshow between certain V8 parties and I hear there is plenty of things going on behind the scenes at MSNZ with certain staff off MSC under the firing line, not before time I might add. Waiting to here more. What I do know is that Shane McKillen who was stated as a director of MSP is not and never has been. Seems Mr Fine added his name to the list without consenting him. Just another line off rubbish coming from these guys.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Evomike

Excellent thoughts there

Evo!! Long time no hear mate! Welcome back to the fold - all we need is Mr Keener now and we'd be just like the good ole days...

[Goat Boy]

All very sensible thoughts by Mr Lancaster, and ones most of us would agree with (except Straightline, Tracey et. al)

However, since when have MNZ ever listened to a common sense argument?? They will just keep on doing what they've always done with the people they've always done it with...

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

All very sensible thoughts by Mr Lancaster, and ones most of us would agree with (except Straightline, Tracey et. al)

would one expect anything less from him?? he has been around long enough to know what works.

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

However, since when have MNZ ever listened to a common sense argument?? They will just keep on doing what they've always done with the people they've always done it with...

so what was the outcome of the TACCOC remit that was altered after it was approved ?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

would one expect anything less from him?? he has been around long enough to know what works.


so what was the outcome of the TACCOC remit that was altered after it was approved ?

Never got submitted in the end, did it? Due to the "steering group" or whatever they call it - has anyone heard anything more about that?

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Never got submitted in the end, did it? Due to the "steering group" or whatever they call it - has anyone heard anything more about that?

FYI

Extracted from the Presidents report in the June copy of Motorsport News, the electronic newsletter sent out to all competition licence holders and officials


It was pleasing to see the turnout at the AGCM, with many clubs represented and some good debate over a number of issues. The key one was the remit passed to review the constitution. Contrary to what is being said in some sectors of the media, the executive did not throw its hands up in horror over this remit being passed. We look forward to the outcome of the independent review.

I guess that when the review has been completed all licence holders, officials and paid up members of car clubs affiliated to MSNZ will be informed of the outcomes, that it provided that the club you belong to passes the information to you, if they don't then that is another issue you need to address.

In my opinion one of the biggest issues of communication is that the various car club executives around NZ do not pass on the information of national importance to their club members and that is something that only the grass roots membership of the clubs can rectify.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

FYI

Extracted from the Presidents report in the June copy of Motorsport News, the electronic newsletter sent out to all competition licence holders and officials


It was pleasing to see the turnout at the AGCM, with many clubs represented and some good debate over a number of issues. The key one was the remit passed to review the constitution. Contrary to what is being said in some sectors of the media, the executive did not throw its hands up in horror over this remit being passed. We look forward to the outcome of the independent review.

I guess that when the review has been completed all licence holders, officials and paid up members of car clubs affiliated to MSNZ will be informed of the outcomes, that it provided that the club you belong to passes the information to you, if they don't then that is another issue you need to address.

In my opinion one of the biggest issues of communication is that the various car club executives around NZ do not pass on the information of national importance to their club members and that is something that only the grass roots membership of the clubs can rectify.

Yes the first remit was passed but the others were withdrawn were they not?

Do you know what has happened since the AGM though? Have not seen or heard anything more about it.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

In my opinion one of the biggest issues of communication is that the various car club executives around NZ do not pass on the information of national importance to their club members and that is something that only the grass roots membership of the clubs can rectify.

depends if said car club believes the membership should be advised, or whether vital information stays at club 'executive' level.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

depends if said car club believes the membership should be advised, or whether vital information stays at club 'executive' level.

Which ones do that?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

In my opinion one of the biggest issues of communication is that the various car club executives around NZ do not pass on the information of national importance to their club members and that is something that only the grass roots membership of the clubs can rectify.

On that note, in May I asked our club President if he could send me a copy (fax, email or hard copy) of the agenda for the MSNZ Annual General Meeting. His response was he only had one copy which was too much for him to fax, so go and ask MSNZ. What a great reply eh?

I haven't renewed the membership.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

On that note, in May I asked our club President if he could send me a copy (fax, email or hard copy) of the agenda for the MSNZ Annual General Meeting. His response was he only had one copy which was too much for him to fax, so go and ask MSNZ. What a great reply eh?

I haven't renewed the membership.

Wow, so Southern Man was on the money. They're not like that at the Alfa Club...

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Yes the first remit was passed but the others were withdrawn were they not?

Do you know what has happened since the AGM though? Have not seen or heard anything more about it.

A remit was passed that required MSNZ to commence an independent review of the governance of MSNZ (much wider than just the constitution) by a review panel of 5 with one being from MSNZ and the other 4 independent.

MSNZ came out a few weeks ago asking for club input of issues for a review of just the MSNZ constitution with a panel of 4 with two being from MSNZ!!

MSNZ had to be told they got it wrong and they had to abide by the remit so after a bit of pressure they reissued the request to clubs for the correct governance review and the required panel of 5 (4 being independent).

MSNZ will revert to clubs with a terms of reference and then clubs can have input to the panel who will report back by December and if any changes to governance required these will be put before the next AGM.

If you feel things need changing, this is the opportunity to get hold of your clubs and let them know how you feel. It has taken years of effort to get this review approved so don't let the chance slip to get something done.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by RogerH

A remit was passed that required MSNZ to commence an independent review of the governance of MSNZ (much wider than just the constitution) by a review panel of 5 with one being from MSNZ and the other 4 independent.

MSNZ came out a few weeks ago asking for club input of issues for a review of just the MSNZ constitution with a panel of 4 with two being from MSNZ!!

MSNZ had to be told they got it wrong and they had to abide by the remit so after a bit of pressure they reissued the request to clubs for the correct governance review and the required panel of 5 (4 being independent).

MSNZ will revert to clubs with a terms of reference and then clubs can have input to the panel who will report back by December and if any changes to governance required these will be put before the next AGM.

If you feel things need changing, this is the opportunity to get hold of your clubs and let them know how you feel. It has taken years of effort to get this review approved so don't let the chance slip to get something done.

That's good to hear, thanks Roger. I wonder if Greg Lancaster has heard about that?

[Evomike]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Evo!! Long time no hear mate! Welcome back to the fold - all we need is Mr Keener now and we'd be just like the good ole days...

I hear hes been banished.....

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Evomike

I hear hes been banished.....

People are entitled to an opinion, and I would agree with most of what Greg wrote. Healthy debate is necessary to resolve problems. All this BS retaliation (V8SC vs NZST if you believe the comments on this forum) and other nonsense, is nothing but an appendage measuring contest.

The only difference between "some men" and "some boys" is the size of their toys. So Evomike, you're probably right!

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

People are entitled to an opinion, and I would agree with most of what Greg wrote. Healthy debate is necessary to resolve problems. All this BS retaliation (V8SC vs NZST if you believe the comments on this forum) and other nonsense, is nothing but an appendage measuring contest.

The only difference between "some men" and "some boys" is the size of their toys. So Evomike, you're probably right!

Nah, off the mark mate, Mr Keener was back in the days of OTR in the NZV8s when everyone played in the same sandpit. He was reportedy banished to the big red country (otherwise known as the West Island) and has not been heard from since - over 5 years I would think?!

Which is a pity, as he was a funny bloke, even funnier than Promax

[promax]

maybe promax is keener

j/k

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

maybe promax is keener

j/k

Nah, you're a good laff though

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by stanley

Nah, you're a good laff though

isn't he, though