Argo

[Neptune]

Chris,

In our earlier discussions on the Modus page, concerning early 74-75 cars and the number to be exported to TOJ, I wonder if perhaps, to have some way of tracking Modus produced chassis destined for TOJ body and chassis tag, the shipping documents may have used a tub number. There would have to be some way of controlling these "vehicles" through customs.

This still doesn't add up with Brian's brother having tub # 54. But, perhaps Obermoser sold some Modus and some as TOJ and only the TOJ tubs would have had a tub number.

As for Jag65's desire to rebuild a bare tub, the cast uprights are going to be the most difficult item to source.

Roger

[driftwood]

it is easy to make new tooling and cast uprights all you need is money and time and i am sure once the tooling is done other car owners will want uprights to keep their cars running
The only negative in what he is going to do with the car is the cost of rebuild new tub uprights etc etc can outway the value of the finished article
ie $40-50k to rebuild a 30k car
Been there seen it done it!

[jag65]

Hi Chris,
I have tub which is badly damaged on near side and has been stripped,hoping to get a few more parts to get project moving,expect it will be a long job but got plenty of time!
Located one rear hub,they wanted offers on around £400 (brand new) so im told!
Thanks very much for your help and information!
Jag65

[Neptune]

And a M2 Modus SV, would use modified VW components, so you wouldn't need the magnesium cast front uprights that are required for a F3 or FA. Some, maybe most of the drawings survive.

You still didn't say where you have this damaged tub.

We also ought to get the moderators to move these Modus discussions over to the Modus thread.

Roger

[jag65]

Sorry about the address this is tne second time i have tried to post it. i am in Southern England (Dorset)
Jag 65

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Neptune

We also ought to get the moderators to move these Modus discussions over to the Modus thread. Roger

That'll be me then, Roger. You identify which posts; I'll move them.

[Matthew Sturmer]

refering back to post's 166 and 168 the second JM3 that was at Pembrey was the ex Eichman car and has been raced in the series for the past 3 years by Tom Thornton and it still retains a Schnitzer BMW engine and Tom has returned it to original livery. There is also a 3rd JM3 around that runs in Classic F3 and that is raced by Neil Dunkel, don't know which chassis no.

[steve wills]

Hope this may be of some interest a few years back now i purchased the Argo project which includes all the drawings,pattern work, some spares and some body moulds etc,this is for the complete range jm1-jm21 i have some info on chassis no's and some knowledge of the whole range but there is a lot to take in as you can probably imagine. I have spent the last few years sorting out the drawings in my spare spare time and seems like there are thousands as you are sifting through them. There is large selection of pattern equipment for wheels, bellhousings, uprights,steering racks and just about everthing else, again i have sorted them out as i have had the time etc.

It was just at the time i felt this was well worth the investment as the cars were very well made and would be a shame if the project became to dismebered and also the drawing quality is superb and a real credit to Jo Marquit.


Well thats all for now hope this may be of some interest?

Steve

[driftwood]

so good he said it twice!
Steve your the Spirit FFord man ex VD etc?
have you thought of getting website sorted out to list what you can do parts wise for the cars or is it still overwhelming what you have to sort through?
I assume you will be fabricating the parts yourself as and when required?

[steve wills]

Thanks Driftwood i really dont know how i got on twice and what is more i have no idea how to delete one of them!

Any way yes you are correct we have done a fair bit with ff over the years in one way or another, i really do need to get a website done for this as mentioned i have been trying to sort it all out and i guess some kind of register is needed? Over the years i have had calls about chassis no's and as i mentioned i have some info any ideas on this subject would be great.We have done some work on some chassis so far mainly on the 10 and 19 and sent some spares to diffrent people but yes we can make anything as required.

[allenbrown]

It's good to know that the material is all safe.

Perhaps we can build an Argo memorial site somewhere as you are able to sort out your material. The page I have for Brabham might be a good template for a starting point.

Allen
www.oldracingcars.com

[Chris Townsend]

I already have a draft Argo page prepared in the style of Allen's car history pages for F5000 on ORC.
This includes Atlantics [I started it to deal with those], F3s and FSVs
Obviously there are a few gaps where we know of cars and drivers but don't know which chassis number, but your records could probably help fill those.

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

Above: JM9-057-FA being driven by Barry Goode at the Shap Wells Inaugural Hillclimb 1989


Above: Laurie Ritchie in JM9-057-FA on the startline at Gurston Down 2008


Above: JM8/85 being driven by Mark Lawrence at Loton Park 1987 - NB the car still had the Toyota engine installed.


Above: Barrie Lines in JM8/85 now with a TVR/Rover V8 in place - Shelsley Walsh 2007

Just some photos to whet the appetite

[wrsexton]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum. I have owned Argo JM-17 s/n 112, a FF2000, since 1999. Bought it from a friend who had owned it since 1991. Posted it for sale once, and a fellow from Germany told me it had been rebodied. I don't think so, as I've seen about three of these here in the states, and they all look the same. Here's a pic of mine from 1991.

Contrary to what many people have stated in this thread, this car had significant flaws in its construction, such that I've had to build several parts from scratch. Interference between the brake caliper brackets and the uprights caused spectacular failures at high speeds when hard braking! Some control arms are oval tubing, while others are round. No apparent logic there. Upper front control arm inner mountings don't use sphericals, causing significant wear to the aluminum mounting tabs. And the car appears to have a built-in serious push that i have been unable to remove. Time will tell, I guess.

If anybody has any spare parts for this - specifically control arms, I'd appreciate any leads.

[driftwood]

I can get argo parts in uk made new from drawings send me a PM with yr details and what u need

[steve wills]

Originally Posted by driftwood

I can get argo parts in uk made new from drawings send me a PM with yr details and what u need

Thanks for the pictures and info on argo's in general guys much appreciated, question does any body know what exactly was the jm13 i do now??????????

[Chris Townsend]

This is a first attempt at getting the first two years of Argo production right. This is largely based on press features on Argo and race reports and the claimed histories of surviving chassis, so there's a lot of inference and deduction - so any help with real, period, chassis identities and notes welcome

1977

JM1 001-F3 debuted 1977 International Trophy with Danny Sullivan. Sold immediately after to Rudi Gygax and used through the season. Disappears thereafter, probably becoming one of several JM1s with Swiss owners in 1978/9

002-F3 If Gygax has 001 the second car to appear is that for Stefan Johansson. Autosport's Monaco report bears this out as it places Jaussaud in the newest of the three cars built to that point by the firm. Used by Johansson into early 1978 according to race reports in A/S and MN. Sold to Wangstre in Sweden May? 1978 and used by Jan Ridell into 1979

003-F3 Debuts for Jaussaud at Monaco F3 support race in 1977. Then used as works rent-a-car. Maybe the car used by David Kennedy at the end of the 1977 season - if so sold to Stefano Nisini after Vallelunga. [This may be a slightly newer 1977 car - see below] Alternatively, kept by works as rental car for 1978

004-SV new to Joe Hill [Zeitler Racing] at Seattle at the end of May 1977, retained unraced 1978 then to Tom Pomeroy. Still in USA

005
006
There are at least two other F3s built in 1977. Swiss driver Bruno Huber has a car from September, if not earlier, and indeed still has a JM1 in 2007 - though I don't know if it's the same car. If someone knows Huber, or knows someone who does, a chassis number would be invaluable
The factory also builds another team car: at the same time as Johansson is running 002, David Kennedy joins the team alongside regular rent a drivers like Jorge Koechlin in the Euro series. One of these cars is 003 but the other has to be new [005 or 006] Autosprint says that an Italian team buys Kennedy's car after the Euro round at Vallelunga. This is the car used by Nisini in 1978.

007-SV to Bill Alsup [Zeitler Racing] then Bill Cruse 1978, James Havell 1979-80 Still in USA

1978 production
1977 production stopped at chassis 7. We know that 1978 production stopped at 20 because that's a known entity which appeared in 1978 and 021 was observed on Guerrero's F3 car in 1979 and it was a JM3 not a JM1. Also, Autosport feature on Argo says production 77/78 was 8 JM2s and 12 JM1

We know most if not all of the 1978 built JM2s [and remember 004 and 007 were 1977 build]
009-SV now in USA but said to have run Euro FSV in period
014-SV now in USA with unknown history
016 SV George Dyer in USA 1978 then Mark Abel 1979/80, still in USA
020-SV Bill Alsup champ winning car in USA 1978, then Bill Vermeer 1979-85. Still in USA
That leaves two unknown SVs in the range 008-019; these, plus 014 above need to account for the US cars of Peter Moodie and Bryan Johnson, and possibly Bob Ciccone.

Of the 12 JM1s we know 1-3 and 4-5 from 1977
1978 is a bit tricky. We need to identify seven chassis
018-F3 is I think completed as a works car in late April 1978 for Johansson; he gets a new car at Donington 30.4.78 and needs one if, as is reported, his older car is sold to Wangstre.
This car is rebuilt as an Atlantic for Rick Gorne with the plate JM1X in 1979 - from where we have a chassis number observation and the press description ex Johansson

015-F3 This plate is on an Argo that came out of Italy recently. By early 1978 there are two Argo JM1s in Italian F3. One is Nisini's which we know to be an ex Kennedy 1977 car, the other is that of Enzo Coloni which appears alongside Nisini at Misano 19.3.78. 015 might be Coloni's car. Coloni and Nisini both quickly became disenchanted with their cars and there are various drivers in Italy with JM1s through 1978 that are, probably, using these two chassis

The other five chassis - with no idea of numbers - have to account for the following [one of these can/has to be the ex Gygax car 001:
Bruno Eichmann - appears with a BMW engine as early as 25.2.78
Freddy Schnarwiler - appears 27.3.78
Norbert Hutter - appears 27.3 78

Works: Janito Campos - appears 2.4.78 and can't be 018 works car as Johansson uses at same time but could be whichever of the 1977 team cars [003 and 5 or 6] doesn't get sold to Nisini.
The works keeps one of those 1977 cars, and/or builds another as we have Kennedy at Zandvoort 27.3.78 in a works car. At Nurburgring 2.4.78 Kennedy and Campos appear together, so one has to be in a new car. Bernd Wicks drives Campos's car at Nurburgring 28.5.78 having been entered in a Renault engined JM1 by another team. I don't know if this car was built; it doesn't seem to race. Campos is killed testing one of the team cars 19.9.78 but the car may not have been scrapped.

Armin Conrad appears 4.6.78, having been entered in said car as early as April, said in 1979 to be ex Johansson, which implies one of the works rental cars, as it can't be either 002 or 018 at that point. Sold to Jean-Yves Simeni in 1979.

Jan Swedenborg has a JM1 which appears in a lot of Swedish entry lists, but only seems to appear as late as 13.8.78 - alongside Ridell, so can't be 002, has to be 1978 car

JM3s and 5s to follow

Chris

[Alan Brown]

http://www.martinchisholm.com/cars/listings/l0113.shtml

I cannot access the link for more details. It is said to be unique.

[driftwood]

i think it was a 1 or 2 off car was colin thorpes car for many years now owned by alex ames used it once in CF3 race
i think it is an 88 89 year car

[f3guide]

Maybe I can contribute a little bit to this forum with the F3 chassisnumbers I collected over the years.

The Bruno Huber car is JM1/006. Bruno Huber bought it in 1977 and still races it today in Historic ADAC-races in Germany.

According to my records Fredy Schnarwiler had chassis 011, but this is not verified.

[allenbrown]

Welcome f3guide! That's just the sort of help we need.

[JagtechOhio]

Perhaps a needless sidenote, perhaps a recource to investigate if you're trying to esablish histories of all chassis:

I still buy parts from Vermeer Auto Parts (International Parts Store) here in Columbus Ohio. Doug Vermeer passed away as a result of a fatal accident in a Super Vee event at Indianapolis Raceway Park in 1983. I don't know what chassis he was running at that time: might have been an Argo?

[ben_h]

Does any one have any pictures of Guerrero's JM3 from 1979 I am trying to get my ex Guerrero JM3 into original livery... I am also not sure what colour the car was in the day... the gel coat suggests Red but not sure if that is the correct colour..

Thanks
Ben

[Don Jones]

Doug Vermeer was driving an Anson SA3

[jleonard]

The red car #1 is JM5-036 FA owned by James Blackwell ex Rackham. Blue car in background is JM8-044 FA owned by Jim Burnett ex Nugent. Photo was taken on June 12 1981 at Portland Intl. SCCA Rose cup races. Both cars still with same owners.