[WEC Race] WEC 2013 Round 2: Spa-Francorchamps

[zanfo zanfagni]

You're right, the problem for toyota is that the low-drag #7 is something like 7km/h slower than the LT R18. Last year at le mans, r18 e-tron had a worse top speed than r18 ultra and ts030 but was able to set faster laptimes. For now toyota has both a worse top speed and pace than audi.
Race is tomorrow, but personally I expect again an audi trio much better and faster than the toyota duo.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

You're right, the problem for toyota is that the low-drag #7 is something like 7km/h slower than the LT R18.

Not true. Toyota #7 matched the top speed of Audi #3 from practice session 2. According to http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...20Practice.PDF both cars hit 307.7 km/h today.

[zanfo zanfagni]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

This is the average of the 3 fastest top speeds during qualifying:

• Audi #1: 297.5 km/h
• Audi #2: 295.1 km/h
• Audi #3: 303.4 km/h
• Toyota #7: 305.9 km/h
• Toyota #8: 289.5 km/h

So Toyota trimmed down the downforce level of the #7 car for qualifying. And Audi ran with a bit more wing on the #3 car. No big deal.

I don't have an expert eye, but here it seems that #3 is using high downforce nose and winglets.

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/271...nelle-libere-2

Could be reason of the lack of 4 km/h

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

This is the average of the 3 fastest top speeds during qualifying:

• Audi #1: 297.5 km/h
• Audi #2: 295.1 km/h
• Audi #3: 303.4 km/h
• Toyota #7: 305.9 km/h
• Toyota #8: 289.5 km/h

So Toyota trimmed down the downforce level of the #7 car for qualifying. And Audi ran with a bit more wing on the #3 car. No big deal.

No. Not a big deal at all. But just making light that Toyotas top speed wasn't slower with the new car. Definitely will be interesting for Le Mans.

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

I don't have an expert eye, but here it seems that #3 is using high downforce nose and winglets.

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/271...nelle-libere-2

Audi said that is the car they will use at LeMans. So I would think its the LeMans package.

[Livininthinair]

In case any of you have not noticed there is a picture of the split exhaust on the R18 in the R18 thread - much more simple of a solution than I had expected...

[TF110]

Wonder how far the lead Audis will go into a stint? Surely doing 1:58s for a majority of their stints is unreasonable. But with their increased pace brings increased fuel use. Neither of the non-longtail's did a reasonable stint distance in practice. The longtail #3 car did 20 laps including pit entry. So anyone think the other Audi's will match that? I think 19 laps is what to expect minimum.

[Eryk03]

Tomorrow is the race, we will see. Let the best man win, again

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Eryk03

@TF110 You don't promising too much for yourself... it is just a toyota.

Riiight...

And you're just a rookie.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Beryl

This is the 6 hours of Spa, not testing at Paul Ricard. I very highly doubt they would throw away any chances of competing for the world championship to sandbag at Spa.All (most) young drivers in karting still dream of driving in F1. F1 is still fairly mainstream. Sports cars aren't. People still care about F1, no one cares about sports cars. In the real world F1 is still the pinnacle of motorsports and it has little to do with F1 being the fast cars.

Toyota's undisputed goal is to win Le Mans. They'll use anything to achieve that. Very much so a championship race. The winner of Le Mans will be remembered by all. The winner of a sportscarchampionship will be remembered by the yearbooks...
You state that no one cares for Sportscars? Ever been to the Le Mans 24 hours? I'll challenge you to find any F1 race where there are a solid 250.000 spectators.
F1 is popular because of the gigantic marketingcircus around it. That's all.

[Fogelhund]

Porsche aren't quite there in GTE. Audi seem to still have the pace... always interesting to know what sandbagging is going on prior to Le Mans.

I'll be away from home during the race, is there a place to view replays? Tape the race, anything like that?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Toyota's undisputed goal is to win Le Mans. They'll use anything to achieve that. Very much so a championship race. The winner of Le Mans will be remembered by all. The winner of a sportscarchampionship will be remembered by the yearbooks...
You state that no one cares for Sportscars? Ever been to the Le Mans 24 hours? I'll challenge you to find any F1 race where there are a solid 250.000 spectators.
F1 is popular because of the gigantic marketingcircus around it. That's all.

Well, one has to admit that Toyota's performance at Spa (for the time being at least - who knows what will happen tomorrow) is disappointing (as admitted by Toyota themselves). Spa is not just a championship race; it's actually - and truly - being used as a preparation for Le Mans. If Toyota struggle at Spa, it does not bode well for Le Mans. This does not mean that Toyota cannot win Le Mans this year, but this will require hard work from Toyota in order to beat an Audi team which is probably at its best at the moment.

[Starfish Primer]

Awesome lap times for Rebellion. :-)

Sad to see the new 911 off pace in the GTE. Let´s see if the Ferraris can compete with the Aston Martins.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I just looked at the sector times of qualifying. The 2013 car is losing a massive 2 seconds in sector 2 because of a lack of downforce

• Audi #1: 53.164
• Rebellion #12: 53.465
• Audi #3: 53.508
• Audi #2: 53.649
• Toyota #8: 54.147
• Rebellion #13: 54.388
• Strakka #21: 54.725
• Toyota #7: 55.157

source: http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...20Practice.PDF

Toyota is really paying the price for showing up with the LM aero package.

Impressive from the Rebellion. Draggy or power?

[Eryk03]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Riiight...

And you're just a rookie.

Rookie on this forum but I saw a lot of races R18 VS TS030 and I know what to expect

[Eryk03]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Well, one has to admit that Toyota's performance at Spa (for the time being at least - who knows what will happen tomorrow) is disappointing (as admitted by Toyota themselves). Spa is not just a championship race; it's actually - and truly - being used as a preparation for Le Mans. If Toyota struggle at Spa, it does not bode well for Le Mans. This does not mean that Toyota cannot win Le Mans this year, but this will require hard work from Toyota in order to beat an Audi team which is probably at its best at the moment.

It is, and Audi is the best from over 10 years.
But still 24h of Le Mans is the king of WEC. Biggest goal of every team.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by vincegail

I really really hope so!

Can we say, that when Toyota is about 1 second of the pace at Spa Francorchamps, they will be 2 seconds of the pace at Le Mans, because Le Mans is about twice the length of Spa?

Nope!

[jsTrecu]

Missed Qualy.

Audi's pace is amazing, didn't expect a 1:58 at all
Also impressed by Rebellion, great performance today in both FP an Q. I'm happy for them.

A bit sad to see Porsches in the two last spots in GTE though, it'll be a hard race...

[Holt]

I think Toyota will be in good shape for Le Mans. Their 2013 LM aero car is very fast on the straight sections compared to the Audi Long tail

For example,

Sector 1

34.266 - R18 Longtail
+0.205
34.471 - TS030 2013

Only 2 tenths down in Sector 1. Not bad

Sector 3

30.866 - R18 Longtail
+0.045
30.911 - TS030 2013

Again, after the twisty stuff Toyota really comes alive

The 2013 Toyota loses 1.6 seconds to the R18 Longtail in the twisty sector 2.

I think Audi is running more downforce on the Longtail then they will at Le Mans. I remember the 2011 Peugeot was much faster then the Audi R18 through Sector 2 and faster overall, but at Le Mans we all saw it was a different story, as Audi had a much faster car.

I think Toyota is running true Le Mans aero, while Audi is not with the Long Tail. So I believe there is hope for Toyota

[Adam43]

Maybe. Although if Audi take off downforce/drag then they will be even quicker on the straight stuff at Le Mans.
And they look in good shape for the Porsche Curves, which will please chernaudi.

[Eryk03]

As the saying goes? oh yeah.... hope often deludes the foolish man

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by GTfour

You state that no one cares for Sportscars? Ever been to the Le Mans 24 hours? I'll challenge you to find any F1 race where there are a solid 250.000 spectators.
F1 is popular because of the gigantic marketingcircus around it. That's all.

You don't think the Italian GP at Monza could get 250'000 if there was enough room? There's also a huge gulf in ticket prices between LM and F1.
It's also a bad comparison because LM is the be all of sports cars and is located in the heart of the sports car world (in France, near Belgium, UK and Germany). F1 has a larger global reach and has 19-20 races, all expensive but still mostly very well attended. The gap between coverage and public knowledge between sportscars and F1 is very large also. I can't believe we are even discussing this.

No matter what reason F1 is more popular than sportscars (I would cite history, having the best drivers, fastest cars etc.), it clearly is and by an obscenely huge amount, and you know that.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I'll be away from home during the race, is there a place to view replays? Tape the race, anything like that?

It's usually uploaded by someone in parts onto youtube.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Beryl

You don't think the Italian GP at Monza could get 250'000 if there was enough room? There's also a huge gulf in ticket prices between LM and F1.
It's also a bad comparison because LM is the be all of sports cars and is located in the heart of the sports car world (in France, near Belgium, UK and Germany). F1 has a larger global reach and has 19-20 races, all expensive but still mostly very well attended. The gap between coverage and public knowledge between sportscars and F1 is very large also. I can't believe we are even discussing this.

No matter what reason F1 is more popular than sportscars (I would cite history, having the best drivers, fastest cars etc.), it clearly is and by an obscenely huge amount, and you know that.

[TF110]

If Audis average pace is 2:03 with stops that comes out to be 8.7 stops for stints of 20 laps. If Toyotas pace is 2:04s with stops that comes out to 7.9 stops for stints of 22 laps. Just a quick calculation. Nothing in depth.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by Beryl

All (most) young drivers in karting still dream of driving in F1. F1 is still fairly mainstream. Sports cars aren't. People still care about F1, no one cares about sports cars. In the real world F1 is still the pinnacle of motorsports and it has little to do with F1 being the fast cars.

I ran a young driver in Karting who actually made it to F1, as did some of our fellow junior Kart competitors...but I never recall them dreaming or even aspiring to be in Formula One...Karting was their focus and their racing.
The reality is F1 is popular because the Media has focused on the Celebrity of the drivers...Not the cars, proof of that is the low circulation of the F1 Magazines for the real enthusiasts of the machines, compared to the TV coverage serving the cult of celebrity.

You only have to glance at the number of real enthusiasts here on 10 Tenths following Sports Cars compared to Formula One to see which has the largest following. Formula One is about Celebrity...Sports Cars are for REAL enthusiasts who understand Racing, the Cars in astonising detail and little interest in the pilots!