[BTCC] Brands Hatch 6/7 May 23, Rounds 4/5/6

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by redshoes

What "tirade of unneeded abuse" did he unleash, or are just assuming that from his body language?

Sam Riches pushed the door closed, he didn't slam the door, although if you've every watched Louise doing a grid walk you'd have noticed that you do need to give the door a firm shove to make sure it closes properly.

Riches had already signally to Collard several times that he needed to drive round, but instead he just sat there blocking up the pit entrance. Collard just needed to do as he was instructed and get out of the way. What Riches did was entirely correct in the circumstances.

Was in ear shot of someone I know quite well.

His actions were poor, he's an official and he's there to uphold standards and that includes his own behaviour.

Good job Collard wasn't trying to get out and his arm/hand/leg in the door when the big lad had his power trip.

Complete abuse of his position but no surprise given who it was.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That picture looks as though it was taken on the first lap of one of the races.

Maybe one of our very knowledgeable marshals could enlighten us, but I have always thought that some discretion was permitted on the opening lap where all the cars are likely to be very much bunched up?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That picture looks as though it was taken on the first lap of one of the races.

Maybe one of our very knowledgeable marshals could enlighten us, but I have always thought that some discretion was permitted on the opening lap where all the cars are likely to be very much bunched up?

that race obviously from last year not this year

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

His actions were poor, he's an official and he's there to uphold standards and that includes his own behaviour.....

.....Complete abuse of his position but no surprise given who it was.

As has been pointed quite a few times on this thread, the official in question is not responsible for the apparent hissy-fit being displayed by Collard. He, Collard, had had plenty of time and opportunity to have been informed that he has been penalised by 10 seconds, plus, I am sure that the official in question had told him when he tried to drive into the weighing area.

By parking there and ignoring directions of an official, he was contravening the Blue Book (the rules and regulations that all drivers should know fairly intimately). And at the same time he was making it extremely difficult for all the other drivers.

And it's not as though the official had only told him to drive to his own garage at least 6 or 8 times. And, of course, so should his team.

Just because his surname is Collard doesn't give him the right to ignore rules and regulations.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

that race obviously from last year not this year

That's not of any importance; the point I was trying to make was about the discretion given on the first lap which has been confirmed by Greem above.

[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That's not of any importance; the point I was trying to make was about the discretion given on the first lap which has been confirmed by Greem above.

As a Marshal & a Clerk, I believe common sense still has a place in motorsport, Greem is spot on where I'm concerned.

I'll give you a different slant on track limits for your thoughts:

At Bishopscourt on Sunday, on 2 consecutive laps a Lotus Elan put wheels off on the inside of a hairpin to get a better line out, blocking the car behind from overtaking.
The result?
Strangely the Elan wasn't out in the second race!
I was the Marshal that wrote the report, but didn't have any further involvement in the decision.

[auroan]

I've been behind someone who lap after lap can't keep their car on track. And it's dammed infuriating when you follow the rules and others either by lack of skills or blatantly cheat to keep ahead. In my case the guy in front of me got a 5 second penalty two laps before the end. So I got his 5th place we were battling for at donny.

[S griffin]

Well if there was a danger of damaging their car by going off, they wouldn't keep doing it. That's the problem. Too often it comes down to time penalties. Quite frankly it's got boring all this talk of track limits.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well if there was a danger of damaging their car by going off, they wouldn't keep doing it. That's the problem. Too often it comes down to time penalties. Quite frankly it's got boring all this talk of track limits.

Surely time penalties are a better prospect than damage (and potential injury)?

[steve_r]

People calling Sutton a Bad winner - perhaps ought to bear in mind that he was shoved onto the grass and nearly into the armco by Collard just about 5 minutes before he was interviewed.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Quite frankly it's got boring all this talk of track limits.

agree!

someone that gets penalised by an enforced rule is usually always unhappy

thats just human nature

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by steve_r

People calling Sutton a Bad winner - perhaps ought to bear in mind that he was shoved onto the grass and nearly into the armco by Collard just about 5 minutes before he was interviewed.

Exactly and actually I don't really get the whole thing about his comment. He stated what was true (Collard ignoring the track limits consistently lap after lap) in a tongue-in-cheek manner, which wasn't meant to be malicious or rude. Listen to what Shane Van Gisbergen of Supercars says about his rivals after their poor driving - his comments are usually a lot more rude and arrogant and are rarely spotted.
Besides, even without Collard's penalty, Sutton would've been the man of the race and well, he stayed on the track while his rival couldn't so fair play to him.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Besides, even without Collard's penalty, Sutton would've been the man of the race and well, he stayed on the track while his rival couldn't so fair play to him.

Sutton said on Twitter he got a track limits warning and therefore reined it in. Presumably Collard had the same warning and continued - and, if it is to be believed that every driver was correctly pinged, was the only one on the Sunday to get a penalty for it. Or were others outside the points allowed to slip under the radar?

[Greem]

Trust me, that's not how it works. I obviously can't speak for how Ian Watson runs race control, bit in general:

Judges of fact or the sensor/camera setup report an infringement. It goes on a tally chart, and things happen as the tally mounts.

I've had clerks and stewards come out more than once to observe me observing because it seemed I was being over strict. In all the cases of that happening, they went away with a new point of view (i.e. I wasn't being over strict).

It's a completely thankless task tbh and I genuinely wish we didn't have to do it. But we do. And here we are!

[Evantra]

Kicking off on Twitter with Collard and Sutton

https://twitter.com/asuttonracing/st...T11pmdgnSSDQzA

[GOLDFINGER]

Originally Posted by steve_r

People calling Sutton a Bad winner - perhaps ought to bear in mind that he was shoved onto the grass and nearly into the armco by Collard just about 5 minutes before he was interviewed.

Surely Collard should be heavily punished for that move ?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Kicking off on Twitter with Collard and Sutton

https://twitter.com/asuttonracing/st...T11pmdgnSSDQzA

Oof. Not a good look for anybody involved, given Motorsport UK's "Race With Respect" programme.

[Trebor902]

I sense things boiling over on track at some point and with the way Collard drives dirty (that's not an attack on him that's how it looks from the outside. Last year he had far too many incidents involving hitting others) a lot of the time it will end up being messy. Ash is good enough to not let any of the childishness get to him or even bother him. I don't understand the general concensus of people slating Sutton saying he can only overtake with contact whenever he does well or wins because I can't recall him ever pushing someone off to take a win.

Will be interesting to see if toca step in to calm the situation. End of the day it's not Ashs fault that the penalty was applied.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Kicking off on Twitter with Collard and Sutton

https://twitter.com/asuttonracing/st...T11pmdgnSSDQzA

if only more drivers would be more open and honest like this instead or coorporate drones

[Trebor902]

Also watched race 3 back from lap 14 to 24 collard went 2 wheels over the back of the kerb every lap at paddock hill, Sutton once at paddock and once at Graham Hill on lap 21.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

On track limits, the last BTCC race I watched was at Knockhill, where there is a fiddly little left right (sorry, I don't know the circuit well) and I commented at the time that there was no attempt at all by any of the drivers to actually take the corner, they all pretty much straightlined it. It seems to me that if there are no track limits it becomes acceptable to use all of the run off and more to race on. There is something inherently wrong about that, surely? Shouldn't the drivers be pushing and battling as hard as they can - on the actual track? But the thing that concerned me was that if you are going to have track limits, then you either penalise everyone or no-one, you can't be selective or random about it.

That sounds like the chicane. I’ve regularly watched touring cars with their nearside go over the chicane on the inside of the kerb. It’ll be intriguing to see how it’s dealt with this year.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

That sounds like the chicane. I’ve regularly watched touring cars with their nearside go over the chicane on the inside of the kerb. It’ll be intriguing to see how it’s dealt with this year.

Yep. As a very 'casual' BTCC watcher, the chicane seemed to be rendered pretty pointless by what I saw.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Trebor902

Will be interesting to see if toca step in to calm the situation. End of the day it's not Ashs fault that the penalty was applied.

The cynic in me says they won't. Over the years we've seen the Neal vs Plato rivalry help to boost the series, and with both of those now retired they need a replacement.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

if only more drivers would be more open and honest like this instead or coorporate drones

The regulations of most series these days, even at the lowest club level, have sections expressly forbidding stuff like this. It's not a good look at any level and does nothing for the sport. They're perfectly capably of picking up the phone and talking or private messaging. There is zero need to do it in public.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The cynic in me says they won't. Over the years we've seen the Neal vs Plato rivalry help to boost the series, and with both of those now retired they need a replacement.

The difference there is that Collard Jr is a little fish compared to either of those two and nobody will really care.