ETC Cup - Salzburgring, 18/19 October 2008

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

Indeed... 'cos even if you know the result, you still don't know how it happened and what else went on...

I always love to watch races, even if I know who wins... it's not like football where the only thing that matters is who scored...

even if you knew that Roldan Rdorigues won GP2 Asia yesterday, you'd still have no idea how Kobayashi tossed it away!!

Exactly, that is the real treat!

I often watch races for a second or third time, I still tend to pick up new details. Look at the lines, the braking zones and a lot of other details.

Regarding your GP2 Asia example, I agree in full. It is eyecandy to see how things evolve to the result in question!

And I still dont know how Kobayashi managed to F*** t up

[JMeissner]

Final standings FIA ETC Cup 2008

1 Michel Nykjær 18 points
2 Oscar Nogués 16 points
3 Richard Göransson 14 points
4 César Campanico 6 points
5 Jens Reno Möller 6 points
6 Kristian Poulsen 5 points
6 Franz Engstler 5 points
8 Tomas Engström 4 points
9 Mikko Eskelinen 3 points
10 Jan Nilsson 1 point
11 Alexander Lvov 0 points
12 Charlie Geipel 0 points

More info:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2831

[FIRE]

Both races were entertaining.

Congrats to Nykjaer.

[Jon411]

Entertaining second race, they went really quickly though, must have been about 18 minutes per race. I thought it was good to see Goldern Motors running near the front for a while as well.

The first chicane caused the havoc I was expecting it to really. Shame there were not a few more front running cars, as the field spread out very quickly, but the pack running from 2 down to about 8/9 was entertaining. I understand that with the costs and travel involved to get teams there for only 35 minutes of racing that teams with tight budgets or from the UK were not really interested in competing, but I do think its a shame that the ETC cup is kind of forgotten about. Without Touring Cat Times and Eurosport it wouldn't get any coverage at all.

Although I know it'll be a good while before they announce who is hosting the ETC Cup next year, I think somewhere like Zolder would be a good place.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by trebor901

why post the results when people are most likely waiting to see it on tv?! how thick.

Lol, calling others thick when you're the one who visits a thread about an event trying to avoid the outcome of that same event? Classic

[Ellmau]

Originally Posted by Jon411

Although I know it'll be a good while before they announce who is hosting the ETC Cup next year, I think somewhere like Zolder would be a good place.

I opt for Zandvoort, but if we really want to some english teams there, I think it will have to be a track in Britain.

[Aslak Vind]

Yes, allthough the 18 minutes per heat is probably to please the broadcasters. Its about the same for both international and national series as well. but then perhaps a third heat could be an idea?

I was a bit disappointed by the Hondas. They were quick in the training, but then they seemed to burn out in the two heats?

For selfish reasons, I am a bit sad that the Danish DTC champion, Jan Magnussen was absent. But he had to attend his GM obligations. A positive surprise was the performance of the Seat, allthough Nogues was a bit of brute.

Zandvoort would be a hoot, but why is it so important to please the UK teams? Is it harder for them to travel, than the rest of us?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Ellmau

I opt for Zandvoort, but if we really want to some english teams there, I think it will have to be a track in Britain.

To avoid home field advantage it would have to be somewhere the BTCC didn't visit. So Cadwell it is then

It's a shame the first chicane caused the field to get split up so soon but I guess going 5 wide was never going to work. As the first race showed though, some times you only need 2 cars to make a race.

[Bramzel]

Zandvoort would suck if the WTCC races there were an example of how S2000 cars would do on that track. It was by far one of the worst races of modern WTCC, very boring and hardly any overtaking action.

I'd opt for something in Germany, Belgium (Zolder is a great touringcar track) or France. Plenty of good tracks there plus they're all central in Europe.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Zandvoort would suck if the WTCC races there were an example of how S2000 cars would do on that track. It was by far one of the worst races of modern WTCC, very boring and hardly any overtaking action.

I still don't understand why the Zandvoort races were so boring. Normally Clio and BMW Cup deliver entertaining races.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

...
Zandvoort would be a hoot, but why is it so important to please the UK teams? Is it harder for them to travel, than the rest of us?

Yeah, they've got to cross the channel

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by mattt

Yeah, they've got to cross the channel

That's indeed a 10 day journey by boat...

[mattt]

Originally Posted by FIRE

That's indeed a 10 day journey by boat...

im trying to make excuses for them, which ent easy

My comment was made slightly sarcastically

[FIRE]

OK
I misunderstood you

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I still don't understand why the Zandvoort races were so boring. Normally Clio and BMW Cup deliver entertaining races.

True, I had the exact same feeling after those races. But the fact that both races were equally boring does say something. From that point of view Assen would be the better choice if it were to be in Holland.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Must have been hard work for Michel and Göransson to fight their way up from 8th and 9th!

8-9th? If it would only have been so easy. After the first corner crash, Göransson was 2nd from the back of the S2000 cars still running. Even Engstler and Engström was ahead of him. Pretty impressive to manage to climb back into 3rd. Still, Nykjaer was a well deserving overall winner even though Göransson never got a real shot at winning the 2nd race. World class clean racers both of them.
And indeed a shame we lost Flash (2x), Engstler and Engström in first corner incidents, they for sure would have added even more excitement both for driver as well as nations championship.
Nogués... well, sad to see him walking away with 2nd place overall. Thoroughly undeserving as he only got it by making sure to send faster opponents off the track in race 1. 1st corner incident... Ok... **** happens in the confusion, but the move on Engström was clearly worthy of a penalty. But I guess someone had to pull off the shady moves since the BTCC teams where missing.
The most sad part though... we now have to wait 1 full year for the next top action ETCC race!! Hopefully next time we will see more than 1 top 5 driver from both DTC and STCC as well as perhaps a few BTCC top entries.

[stedevil]

BTW what about Brno for next years ETCC? It clearly produced the best WTCC action this year sofar IMO, and lies decently centrally in Europe. Anderstorp would be a good track as well, but it's location might not be the ideal for more southern nations logistics budgets.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

I was a bit disappointed by the Hondas. They were quick in the training, but then they seemed to burn out in the two heats?

Well, the Swedish Honda was up there on pace, would have finished 3rd in race 1 and managed 6th even though starting at the very back in race 2. Pretty decent, especially considering Engström is the clear 2nd driver in the Swedish Honda team.

[Aslak Vind]

On a personal note, I am happy to see that a DTC car like Engstlers, could be so fast in a ETCC race. For those of you who dont know, Engstlers BMW 320si E90 was in fact Michel Nykjærs DTC car from Poulsen Motorsport, chartered in by Engstler. Hios BMW was on its merry way to Japan for the WTCC race, so he phoned Poulsen.

No matter if the BTCC teams were present or not, it gotta say something about the Danish and Swedish national championships.

[PTM]

Good fun in R1, I didn't manage to catch race 2. Congrats to Michel, decent bloke without a drive for 09. For now...

Thanks for keeping us posted on the details, Martin - I miss your commentary on Eurosport (I'm stuck with your Danish colleagues).

[Jon411]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

For those of you who dont know, Engstlers BMW 320si E90 was in fact Michel Nykjærs DTC car from Poulsen Motorsport, chartered in by Engstler.

Looking at Engstler's car on the tv yesterday, I wondered if it was a Poulson car as it had the red stripe along the bottom of it like Poulson's own car did and it wasn't in the full Liqui Moly livery of the WTCC cars because I didn't think Engstler had another E90 sitting around in Germany - so thanks for clearing that one up

The racing was great, the only reason why I wanted a BTCC team there was to see how the BTCC teams like WSR compared to the Swedish and Danish guys.

[PTM]

Agree, it would be good fun to watch a few more top guys from BTCC - and STCC and DTC as well.

Magnussen I would love to see (obviously) as well as Jason Watt in the Seat. Super quick Thed Björk in the Honda and some Alfas were missed as well.

Thanks for the inside info, Aslak:-)

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Jon411

The racing was great, the only reason why I wanted a BTCC team there was to see how the BTCC teams like WSR compared to the Swedish and Danish guys.

Yeah, I would also find that interesting. But apart from the money needed to participate, BTCC in many cases seems to have the opinion of itself as even rivalling WTCC. So beating DTC and STCC drivers wouldnt been seen as a big achievement "back home" while potentially finding out that even these drivers beat you could be quite embarrassing. Personally I think, the fear of the latter might be just as big a reason for why we dont see any BTCC entries as the economical ones.

[Aslak Vind]

I could have a sneaking suspicion, that sedevil is rigth. The BTCC teams are very aware of their succes, and often compare themselves with international series, rather than other national series.

You are welldome, Bo Now we are talking inside, Jens Reno Møller was driving James Thompsons DTC Honda of Hartmann Racing, with the latest N-Technology enginespec. Launched in the DTC only a few races ago, and given this gentlemandrivers succes in Austria, it works pretty good.

[PDS]

Originally Posted by stedevil

BTCC in many cases seems to have the opinion of itself as even rivalling WTCC. So beating DTC and STCC drivers wouldnt been seen as a big achievement "back home"

Where did you get that idea from?

The BTCC teams I know that WANTED to go to the ETC declined due to financial reasons... Don't forget, anytime a British team wants to race in europe have extortionate transport costs that european teams won't have.