Peugeot 2010-2011 (Temporarily Closed)

[CTD]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

You continue to reinforce my thought! Why wouild Oreca do this if they wish to promote the ability to produce a good and competitive chassis, for sale?
L.P.

All chassis manufactures knows that they will never build as good chassis as Peugeot and Audi, as chassis manufactures has to hold a budget, so the chassis can be sold at an reasonable price! (ex. Lola could improve their cars much more, if they had budget to do it, but the cars would get to expensive for sale then).
For a chassis manufacture it's important to show the potency of the chassis, and the best way to do this, is running the best engine available (ei. The #2 Peugeot engine).
But it really doesn't make that much sense any of it, and no matter what we eventually think is going to happened, doesn't matter, as it's not 100% sure that the engine partnership is going to happened (Peugeot only confirmed the possibility).

[HORNDAWG]

I still do not agree!




L.P.

[zac510]

Even if Oreca can't build a chassis as good as Peugeot or Audi at least they'll have the best diesel engine in the back and as the rules (still) stand an Audi or Peugeot diesel is superior to any other petrol engine available. This is pretty common knowledge. So this will place Oreca as the best privateer if they keep making chassis like this year's car.

It's surprising that nobody else has been able to coax a diesel engine from Audi/Pug but maybe they have wanted to preserve their diesel advantage for a big longer. Oreca are the first and it may still turn out to be an advantage depending upon how the parity laws progress.

Still wondering why they didn't chose Pesca

[isynge]

Originally Posted by zac510

Still wondering why they didn't chose Pesca

Had this been three / four years ago I'd agree utterly, but now, with what used to be Pescarolo Sport spread across a number of entities (Oak doing the manufacturing, Sora with some cars - anything else? - and who knows regarding what Henri himself is doing) ORECA looks a better long term bet.

On the engine supply subject - I'm a bit more sanguine. Obviously Peugeot's own development will be ahead, but are they going to be running all the same rounds as ORECA? Probably not. Will the Peugeot engine supplied still be good? Almost certainly. Better than the AIM? Again, almost certainly. Why shouldn't ORECA think they can possibly do a better packaging job with the engine and even without the frontline development the factory enjoys why not beat them? Joest, after all, managed numerous times in the past, and why not have the level of ambition to aspire to that sort of standard?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

As a customer of Peugeot you would always get a #2 engine. Why would another constructor (Oreca) always want to be in the shadow of Peugeot? Does not make good business sense to me.
Something does not smell right here.

Peugeot goes hybrid and leaves Oreca like a backdoor?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by zac510

Still wondering why they didn't chose Pesca

Pescarolo is disintegrating...
The 'constructor' part of Pescarolo business was sold to OAK Racing, an they don't have the money even to go just to Le Mans. Peugeot doesn't pays for them to race the car. They have to pays for the opportunity to race with an Peugeot.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Pescarolo is disintegrating...
The 'constructor' part of Pescarolo business was sold to OAK Racing, an they don't have the money even to go just to Le Mans. Peugeot doesn't pays for them to race the car. They have to pays for the opportunity to race with an Peugeot.

Or racing the Peugeot last year (and paying the repair bill), left Pescarolo in a state where he couldn't afford running the 908!?

[Tim the Grey]

I read this as Oreca getting a 908 for LMS and LM24 in 2010. Then some engine support in 2011, when the 908 is no longer viable???

Or is it a re engine of a modified 908 to suit the new regs from 2011...

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by CTD

All chassis manufactures knows that they will never build as good chassis as Peugeot and Audi, as chassis manufactures has to hold a budget, so the chassis can be sold at an reasonable price! (ex. Lola could improve their cars much more, if they had budget to do it, but the cars would get to expensive for sale then).
For a chassis manufacture it's important to show the potency of the chassis, and the best way to do this, is running the best engine available (ei. The #2 Peugeot engine).
But it really doesn't make that much sense any of it, and no matter what we eventually think is going to happened, doesn't matter, as it's not 100% sure that the engine partnership is going to happened (Peugeot only confirmed the possibility).

I disagree and think the companies producing customer chassis can product a compotent, capable chassis. Putting that aside, the petrol powered cars aren't just uncompetitive, they aren't even in the same class. We can't even tell if a chassis is competitive or not.

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by CTD

The Peugeot V12 HDI, is said to be miles better than the Audi V12 and V10!.
So if they made small upgrades to it (if that is possible), and developed a even better V8 or V10 for themselves, then i think the V12 still would give Audi a fair race (the question for me is, if ORECA can build a chassis which is competitive with Audi and Peugeot?. The attempt with Audi engine in a non-Audi Chassis, hasn't been good!, so why should Peugeot in ORECA)

Simply because the 2011 Oreca LMP1 will be developped for and around the Peugeot components(engine, transmission) !!!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

The Peugeot V12 HDI, is said to be miles better than the Audi V12 and V10!.
So if they made small upgrades to it (if that is possible), and developed a even better V8 or V10 for themselves, then i think the V12 still would give Audi a fair race (the question for me is, if ORECA can build a chassis which is competitive with Audi and Peugeot?

The 2011 rules mandate diesel engines to have 8 cilinders.

It all depends how the rule transition will happen. I imagine that ACO will only allow existing homologated LMP1 cars to compete with some extra restrictions. Oreca talks about a completely new car, which implies that they will run according to the new engine rules (3.7 V8 diesel, 3.4 V8 or 2.0 turbo).

[isynge]

The argument around customer chassis I think has a lot more to do with the compromises needed to make it affordable, make it easy to maintain, and make it compatible with a variety of engine choices. Look at any of the major customer manufacturers and throughout history they've shown themselves perfectly capable of building world class cars when resourced to do so.

As Acura, and for that matter ORECA, have shown, the baseline Courage LC7x package had the makings of a very competitive car in there, thus the resource ORECA are building from has the capability to package things very effectively. As an out and out race team unfettered by wider corporate considerations I think there's every chance we'll see them do very well indeed.

[Tom908V12]

Great news !!! Nicolas Lapierre officially signed again with Oreca and will drive the 2010 908 and the 2011 P02-Peugeot(seen on Endurance-Info) !!!

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Simply because the 2011 Oreca LMP1 will be developped for and around the Peugeot components(engine, transmission) !!!

And we are to lose Peugeot as a constructor/competitor and have them only as an engine supplier? I do not think that is good! It is a net loss IMO.






L.P.

[merlot brougham]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

And we are to lose Peugeot as a constructor/competitor and have them only as an engine supplier?

No one, ANYWHERE of any sort of "officialness" has stated that will happen. I don't understand why so many people on here think that supplying an engine means the manufacturer is pulling out. This seems to me like a long-term commitment to series support. This way they could be powering a leading privateer team and manufacturer team. The engine will still be usable and Peugeot can support it with a minimum of cost. Actually they will probably MAKE money on a leasing program. And that allows them to focus on their hybrid powertrain that they have been planning for two years now.

This screams of them creating a customer motorsports department at Peugeot to me..

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

No one, ANYWHERE of any sort of "officialness" has stated that will happen. I don't understand why so many people on here think that supplying an engine means the manufacturer is pulling out. This seems to me like a long-term commitment to series support. This way they could be powering a leading privateer team and manufacturer team. The engine will still be usable and Peugeot can support it with a minimum of cost. Actually they will probably MAKE money on a leasing program. And that allows them to focus on their hybrid powertrain that they have been planning for two years now.

This screams of them creating a customer motorsports department at Peugeot to me..

That is certainly one possibility.

But also: No one, ANYWHERE of any sort of "officialness" has stated that it won't happen!




L.P.

[ger80]

Is it maybe a "world engine" what Oreca gets?

[Tom908V12]

The engine customer deal between Pug and Oreca would be signed for three years(2011-2013)according to L'Equipe !!

[isynge]

The concept of Peugeot as an engine supplier alone is almost certainly bad news for the LMIC, but potentially good news for ALMS/LMS.

A works Peugeot is always going to be hard to beat, just like any works team. Sure a good privateer can have the odd stupendous result (Joest through the 80s and 90s being the best example) but in the main a works outfit will have an inherent resourcing advantage. As an engine supplier alone potentially levels the playing field a lot - for instance how many questions would be answered by seeing a Lola-Peugeot vs an ORECA-Peugeot?

If, and let's reiterate that we're talking purely in hypotheticals at the moment, Peugeot does come to have a customer programme is the real upshot the addition of a realistic LMP1 engine supplier over and above the current Judd/Zytek choice?

Sure there's the promotional support they bring to the table - in terms of ticket give-aways and exposure, but that's a different issue. Yes it's important but if nothing else it highlights the level to which promotion in incumbent on the organisers, not the entrants.

[Tom908V12]

To me one program won't replace the other: the engine deal with Oreca doesn't replace the presence of Peugeot as factory team in endurance

From 2011 in my point of view there will be simply two Oreca-Peugeot and three 90?

[Acid09]

At least Peugeot is starting to use the 908's success for some marketing now, just stumbled over this commercial on telly a few minutes ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpwsn5gYWU

Always cool to see a LMP used for advertising like that, even though the majority of viewers will probably have no idea what the car is about.

[joeb]

That was nice, do you think they will let you test drive the 908 sitting in the showroom?

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Acid09

At least Peugeot is starting to use the 908's success for some marketing now, just stumbled over this commercial on telly a few minutes ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpwsn5gYWU

Always cool to see a LMP used for advertising like that, even though the majority of viewers will probably have no idea what the car is about.

Peugeot in the UK used the 908 for high profile press advertising from the very start of the LMS programme

[Lola T70]

And cool they were too, quite sarcastic humour about beating Audi.

[Tom908V12]

Official !!!! Grégory Guilvert(winner of the 2009 THP Spider Cup)has been named Peugeot-Sport test driver for 2010 !!!

He will developp the 908(perhaps also the replacement proto of 2011), the 2010 season THP Spider and the rally car(207 S2000)...