[BTCC] BTCC 2018 - Knockhill - Rounds 22, 23, 24

[B0U170NS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Cammish really does need to get some testing in and learn how to look after tyres. He'd best get on with it otherwise I think he'll be shown the door.

The amount of criticism for Cammish on here is ridiculous. The guys extremely talented and is only going to get better. Where was his vastly experienced, multiple champion teammate this weekend?

[S griffin]

Sutton did a brilliant job in the rain as usual. No matter what you think of the car he drives, he is a great talent. Just a shame him and Tingram got excluded in R2, but what a recovery by Sutton. Still Colin has a big lead and now just needs to keep everything together, like he did in 09, to get the title. It's his to lose now. Others need an act of god to get back in contention

Shame for Jelley, Colin is better than that, although even the best make mistakes. It seems though Jelley has taken over from Tordoff as the bad luck magnet of 2018. He was having his best race and looked more like the Jelley of 09. At least he salvaged a couple of points in R3

Nice to see Sonic become our record breaking 14th different winner. He really controlled that win from the front. He has done a brilliant job this season. And AJ was back on form this weekend too

Cammish had a decent couple of races, certainly a big gap over Neal this weekend and only a few points behind Neal in the championship. Certainly has done a good job in his first season. And what has happened to Goff? He has let his title chance slip these last few weekends

Butcher looked impressive in the MG. And the VWs were nowhere. And Plato, how much longer can he go on like this?

I'm glad, despite the conditions there were so few incidents. Drivers were on the whole quite sensible today. Especially when they all missed Lloyd's car facing the wrong way

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Sutton did a brilliant job in the rain as usual. No matter what you think of the car he drives, he is a great talent. Just a shame him and Tingram got excluded in R2, but what a recovery by Sutton. Still Colin has a big lead and now just needs to keep everything together, like he did in 09, to get the title. It's his to lose now. Others need an act of god to get back in contention

Shame for Jelley, Colin is better than that, although even the best make mistakes. It seems though Jelley has taken over from Tordoff as the bad luck magnet of 2018. He was having his best race and looked more like the Jelley of 09. At least he salvaged a couple of points in R3

Nice to see Sonic become our record breaking 14th different winner. He really controlled that win from the front. He has done a brilliant job this season. And AJ was back on form this weekend too

Cammish had a decent couple of races, certainly a big gap over Neal this weekend and only a few points behind Neal in the championship. Certainly has done a good job in his first season. And what has happened to Goff? He has let his title chance slip these last few weekends

Butcher looked impressive in the MG. And the VWs were nowhere. And Plato, how much longer can he go on like this?

I'm glad, despite the conditions there were so few incidents. Drivers were on the whole quite sensible today. Especially when they all missed Lloyd's car facing the wrong way

Agreed on all accounts. If Turks does win the title, I won't be disappointed as he still has time on his hands to equal Rouse's record, roll on Silverstone!

[Matt K]

But hopefully if Turkington is to win the title, he'll be on the grid with WSR in 2019...

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by Matt K

But hopefully if Turkington is to win the title, he'll be on the grid with WSR in 2019...

3rd time lucky.....

[porsche962fan]

and the "poor" Turkington family have to buy another car from Dick Bennets, wonder if it will be this one or the 2014 one restored to EBAY livery

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by B0U170NS

The amount of criticism for Cammish on here is ridiculous. The guys extremely talented and is only going to get better. Where was his vastly experienced, multiple champion teammate this weekend?

What I find frustrating about Cammish is his failure to understand how to manage tyres on FWD; it's such a glaring issue as he is utterly brilliant in every other respect IMO. If he gets to grips with this he will be championship material; if he doesn't... maybe WSR would be interested for next year as a Collard replacement if he does not continue?

[porsche962fan]

Cammish will not leave empty handed this season, he leads the Jack Sears Throphy by wide margin

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Cammish will not leave empty handed this season, he leads the Jack Sears Throphy by wide margin

Actually, I think Smiley can take it if Dan has an awful Silverstone or Brands.

[S griffin]

He has certainly got closer to Neal as the season has gone on

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think anyone thinks Sutton lacks skill, but I don't think the RWD vs FWD thing comes into it. At these FWD favoured circuits, Turks was still getting podiums. Meanwhile, Sutton, who is still a superstar, didn't get a podium and regularly finished outside the top 10. Then suddenly Croft appears and the car is so good that he struggles to not win races.

There is certainly FWD and RWD circuits, but not to the extent that the Subaru changes pace. No other car has that sort of swing between struggle for top 10s to going for 3 wins in a weekend and managing races with full ballast.

Not that it's Suttons fault. You work with the tools you've got. For whatever reason, the tool that is the Subaru is horrendous at some tracks, and then has the ability to completely destroy the grid at others. As brilliant as Ash is, we can hardly put it all down to him, unless we're suggesting that at the first few rounds he forgot how to drive.

The team did bring updates to the car at the Croft round, and as I say, the rain helped at Snetterton where the long straight should have crucified Sutton.

[BobJones]

Let's criticise Cammish and completely forget that Matt Neal was utterly rubbish this weekend.

[touringlegend]

Neal and Plato just seemed completely anonymous in all three races. Strange times!

[porsche962fan]

the roller which didn't want to roll...


Tyagaraja poems

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BobJones

Let's criticise Cammish and completely forget that Matt Neal was utterly rubbish this weekend.

Matt Neal, like JP, is a shadow of his former self. He's still better than a lot of the kids IMO. If he could qualify better he'd be showing far better results. Big close field and his overtaking ability isn't as strong as it was.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

the roller which didn't want to roll...


Tyagaraja poems

Thing I don’t get is I have never seen them check the car at the sides before? You usually see the car pull in, roller in below the front before it is pushed on to the scales.

It’s just that watching the coverage back Sutton stated the right hand side was the only part that failed.

[touring fan01]

they always check the front and sides and often the rear
tv doesn’t cover every angle

[crmalcolm]

Question regarding Subaru ride height checks:

It has been reported that the Subarus undergo a COG equalisation measure, to compensate for the Boxer engine. The description of this is that the team can add ballast to the bulkhead, or raise the ride height - or a combination of these on a sliding scale.
If this is the case, and the ride height is raised, does that mean scrutineering is carried out with a plate or similar under the roller?

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Matt Neal, like JP, is a shadow of his former self. He's still better than a lot of the kids IMO. If he could qualify better he'd be showing far better results. Big close field and his overtaking ability isn't as strong as it was.

He's still doing better than Plato, this will be JP's first winless season if he can't pull something out of the bag at Silverstone or Brands.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Thing I don’t get is I have never seen them check the car at the sides before? You usually see the car pull in, roller in below the front before it is pushed on to the scales.

It’s just that watching the coverage back Sutton stated the right hand side was the only part that failed.

doesn't really matter if they have checked it before, the rules are the rules, its the scrutineers discretion if they want to check it

[mickb]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Thing I don’t get is I have never seen them check the car at the sides before? You usually see the car pull in, roller in below the front before it is pushed on to the scales.

It’s just that watching the coverage back Sutton stated the right hand side was the only part that failed.

Is the Suburu right-hand drive? thinking the ballast might have been a factor in it only failing on the Right-hand side IF that's where it was added. Or Sutton got stuck into the pies between R1 and R2

And any indication as to why exactly standing water would reduce the ride height??

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by mickb

And any indication as to why exactly standing water would reduce the ride height??

The car has a certain amount of clearance from the tarmac surface - if there's water sat on the tarmac then you've got less clearance - eg: If you've got 5cm of clearance on dry tarmac and then it rains and there's 2cm of standing water you've now only got 3cm of clearance. So - if you go through 5cm of standing water then there's no clearance at all and your bodywork is ploughing through the water at speed and gets damaged. Add in things like camber of the circuit, suspension compression at any given moment etc etc and you can see how it's possible for one side of the car to pick up damage from standing water and not the other.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The car has a certain amount of clearance from the tarmac surface - if there's water sat on the tarmac then you've got less clearance - eg: If you've got 5cm of clearance on dry tarmac and then it rains and there's 2cm of standing water you've now only got 3cm of clearance. So - if you go through 5cm of standing water then there's no clearance at all and your bodywork is ploughing through the water at speed and gets damaged. Add in things like camber of the circuit, suspension compression at any given moment etc etc and you can see how it's possible for one side of the car to pick up damage from standing water and not the other.

lets face it they and speedworks just made a mistake with their ride height setup. every major team has made the same mistake from time to time

[Sodemo]

That's curious about checking the sides of the car with the roller. I guess the cars don't run a lot of rake like they used to. Years back the teams just ran the front splitter as close to the ground as they could get away with (45mm minimum).

So do the Subaru's get measured with a different roller then than the other cars? If they have this variable ride height calculation that they can adjust? In fact if it is adjustable, how can they have one roller for all cars?

[Robin Marriott]

Measuring the front and under both sides of the car is standard procedure in most championships in one way or another, you either have to drive over a block of fixed height or be inspected with a roller like BTCC.

The reason they measure the sides is to stop you running sideskirts which are really low to help with aero. The rake doesn’t matter, you have a minimum height in the car and whichever point that is, that’s the measurement you have to work from.

What you didn’t see in the TV footage is that they will have tested both sides of the car so any talk of damage is horsepoop, the test eliminates that eventuality.

Obviously everyone is fighting for points but sometimes you just have to accept you’re wrong and get in with it, not drag it out like both teams did on Sunday.