[WEC] Kolles Prototype

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm not sure I agree with that. We had it a lot in GTE. We chucked out long term supporters like JMW because Ford wanted 4 cars, and therefore everyone else wanted 4 cars. I don't consider this an upgrade.

I don't think manufacturers should be allowed to saturate a class for the short term whilst hurting private long term supporters.

I agree with this - as an ideal - but when you have manufacturers suddenly turning up en masse, the outcome is almost inevitable. It doesn't mean that it is desirable though, certainly not in the long term, because we know what will eventually happen.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm not sure I agree with that. We had it a lot in GTE. We chucked out long term supporters like JMW because Ford wanted 4 cars, and therefore everyone else wanted 4 cars. I don't consider this an upgrade.

I don't think manufacturers should be allowed to saturate a class for the short term whilst hurting private long term supporters.

You got me there, JMW were done more than dirty in that exchange.

But I'd make a distinction between privateers with a proven track record of competitiveness (JMW in this case) and an one that, despite what must be the best efforts of the crew, isn't (Kolles). I think the potential removal of Kolles in favour of a privateer 963/499P is more justifiable along those lines than with JMW and Ford ever was. If there was a true privateer that could step up that would be even better than another manufacturer car, but that isn't on the horizon now or in the near future.

Manufacturers are by no means excluded from this - Nissan & Aston Martin for instance should have both been given the boot and had their spots given to more rewarding entries, privateer or otherwise. Unfortunately, it is far easier for a factory to string along the ACO, for various reasons that have been discussed at length since the demise of LMP1-H.

[broadrun96]

Ouch, this has NOT gone well for the ELMS should be WEC Jr did it.

It's LITERAL purpose is to help teams and drivers get to WEC. By your logic F2 should include Haas and Alfa cause they aren't winning in F1 but could be run by teams and win in F2. Well yeah, but that's not the purpose of F2

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by J Jay

But I'd make a distinction between privateers with a proven track record of competitiveness (JMW in this case) and an one that, despite what must be the best efforts of the crew, isn't (Kolles). I think the potential removal of Kolles in favour of a privateer 963/499P is more justifiable along those lines

Regarding this and your previous post about Kolles v manufacturer entries (#2024 I think?).

Would I rather have a third 499P or the Kolles? I'd take the third Ferrari.
However, would I rather have the Kolles or a seventh or eigth 963? I'd take the Kolles, no matter how poor it is, than have wall to wall Porsches (or any other manufacturer currently involved).

[veeten]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Ouch, this has NOT gone well for the ELMS should be WEC Jr did it.

It's LITERAL purpose is to help teams and drivers get to WEC. By your logic F2 should include Haas and Alfa cause they aren't winning in F1 but could be run by teams and win in F2. Well yeah, but that's not the purpose of F2

It's because that's a football(soccer) mentality, where one chooses to see P2, as well as F2, as if it is some lower ranks to send teams and manufacturers down, so to speak. And while Alpine did this in the last season for them to prepare for their new LMDh, it was a choice by the team/manufacturer, not by the organizers.

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by J Jay

If there was a true privateer that could step up that would be even better than another manufacturer car, but that isn't on the horizon now or in the near future.

You are absolutely right. And who is gonna step-up now since there won't be any P2 in WEC anymore ? The gap between entering an P2 in ELMS and a hypercar in WEC is so immense now.

The famous ACO ladder seems broken to me and as it stands I see two solutions to fix it : allow bronze drivers to drive in hypercar and, when current P2 generation is gone (which is a hurdle so difficult to overcome that the ACO still doesn't want it to happen really), allow year old hypercar machineries to go in ELMS.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by J Jay

If there was a true privateer that could step up that would be even better than another manufacturer car, but that isn't on the horizon now or in the near future.

They explicitly banned those. Which is why the ByKolles has a Vanwall sticker of dubious origins on it.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

You are absolutely right. And who is gonna step-up now since there won't be any P2 in WEC anymore ? The gap between entering an P2 in ELMS and a hypercar in WEC is so immense now.

The famous ACO ladder seems broken to me and as it stands I see two solutions to fix it : allow bronze drivers to drive in hypercar and, when current P2 generation is gone (which is a hurdle so difficult to overcome that the ACO still doesn't want it to happen really), allow year old hypercar machineries to go in ELMS.

ACO only really care about Hypercar. LMP2 still has it’s place, but it’s not as relevant to LMDH, as it was to LMP1.

I do like your idea of older Hypercars going to ELMS, that would be good practice for those wanting to step up

[FIRE]

Bring back the Interserie.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Bring back the Interserie.

That reminds me that it’s been a quite a while since we saw open top sportscars in the major series, like IMSA, ELMS and WEC. Maybe it would be nice to have a series for them

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That reminds me that it’s been a quite a while since we saw open top sportscars in the major series, like IMSA, ELMS and WEC. Maybe it would be nice to have a series for them

Go watching classic racing.

Except for some light prototypes (CN class) there are no modern open prototypes, they are all - because of the rules - replaced by closed prototypes. Some of the open prototypes are now raced in series for classic cars.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That reminds me that it’s been a quite a while since we saw open top sportscars in the major series, like IMSA, ELMS and WEC. Maybe it would be nice to have a series for them

I wonder if a current open top sportscar would have to use Halo or Aeroscreen?

[Adam43]

I would imagine they’d have to do that.

They could do it and then put a top on it for added protection and rigidity. I’ve seen a render of what that would look like. Open top with aero screen render.

I hope sportscar doesn’t do that - I can’t take the pondering about whether it obscures vision, what you do in the rain, how the driver gets out in an emergency, or if you can keep the driver cool.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I would imagine they’d have to do that.

They could do it and then put a top on it for added protection and rigidity. I’ve seen a render of what that would look like. Open top with aero screen render.

I hope sportscar doesn’t do that - I can’t take the pondering about whether it obscures vision, what you do in the rain, how the driver gets out in an emergency, or if you can keep the driver cool.

In this way it is like it would not make sense for it to be an open top.
I imagine something like the BMW V12 LMR with a Halo.

[Gerard C]

Back in the day: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Alpine_A442

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Obviously we have a healthy series!!!!
But I feel that the ELMS should absorb the Hypercars that cannot be in the WEC
1 hypercar is always better than 10 LMP3!!!

No, no it isn't

[joeb]

So you're saying there's a chance!

https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...vandervell-680

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by joeb

So you're saying there's a chance!

https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...vandervell-680

I hope so. Le Mans history is filled with mad efforts that were barely legal (both regulation and law-wise).

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I hope so. Le Mans history is filled with mad efforts that were barely legal (both regulation and law-wise).

I think grid size considerations are going to be the most important factor in a Kolles entry being accepted in 2025. Also, getting the car out testing could she the ACO they are serious about this program.

[TF110]

I'd love to see them back with better cars. They're always that one team you wonder about making it or not and what they'll show up with.

[Coach Ep]

The ACO won't look at Kolles again until the next manufacturers exodus (and then they'll be begging them to come back).

[tomcug]

Yea, no way for Colin to make it tbh:

• very poor performance in 2023,
• no legal rights to use the Vanwall brand,
• Aston Martin joining next year,
• extra cars from Cadillac and Lamborghini due to new rules.

RIP Van... ByKolles LMH.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

The ACO won't look at Kolles again until the next manufacturers exodus (and then they'll be begging them to come back).

That may be, but then again they granted entry to Isotta this year. So hopefully both of them are there. The more the merrier!

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

The ACO won't look at Kolles again until the next manufacturers exodus (and then they'll be begging them to come back).

100% this. No way Kolles will be back on the grid in the near future with the expected 2 car mandate and Aston Martin joining. That being said id like to see them back, the car wasnt competitive and not always reliable but the more variety the better imo.

Im still quite curious though as to why and how he has kept throwing money behind this team for so long. It must have cost an absolute fortune since the original Lotus LMP1 at the start of the thread and ultimately as much as i love the effort, its achieved nothing of note other than catching fire plenty of times.

[pavloslepaul]

Mighty Kolles squad. They are so long here I forgot how they even started, but personally they started to me a bit annoying in recent years. Whole speculations and case around Vanwall name, struggles with engine caused that's the only constructor in WEC which I would really do not miss. Even when Isotta is lacking in a lot of areas they are at least fresh air to the sport, while ByKolles (as personally struggle to called it Vanwall) was a bit boring.



About costs, I heard to stories around WEC community. One is that Kolles is running team on relatively low cost, other is around sponsors on the car which often are companies related to him or his family.