[BTCC] 2016 BTCC news & rumours

[porsche962fan]

if I remember Motorbase isn't actually tied to Ford ? which means they could switch to whatever they want, even to BMW 1 Series of their own

either way Gow must really do something, it's now just 2 RWD teams which are dominating too much and the rest of the field is FWD and must suffer

[touring fan01]

Every year after every Oulton, Croft and Rockingham the FWD teams complain about RWD.

Every year.

It's just more of the same.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Well, Motorbase could switch to Mustangs of course

Now you're talking my language.

[porsche962fan]

if someone needs an RWD platform, perhaps they could get this ? put the RML kit and newest TOCA engine....


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[porsche962fan]

ohh I just realized !!! the new Focus RS is a 4WD !!!! so maybe Motorbase can get a RWD too !!!



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[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

ohh I just realized !!! the new Focus RS is a 4WD !!!! so maybe Motorbase can get a RWD too !!!



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Is it time to do with RWD what Super Touring did with aero in 1995 (just allow it for everybody)??!

[steve_r]

I'm sure it will be and can be equalised by boost or ballast changes, just like it has been before. No need for everyone to chuck their FWD cars into the skip just yet.

The RWD advantage is emphasised due to the fact that the BMWs have really got their act together, plus the Subarus are going to be the car to beat. In previous years it was less obvious because you just had the BMWs plus the one occasionally competitive Audi

[VIVA GT]

Rear wheel drive and 350 - 400 BHP Touring Cars sound good to me. All we need now is hard, durable skinny tyres and we should have a spectacle!

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Every year after every Oulton, Croft and Rockingham the FWD teams complain about RWD.

Every year.

It's just more of the same.

Yup

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

ohh I just realized !!! the new Focus RS is a 4WD !!!! so maybe Motorbase can get a RWD too !!!



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Yup that would be quite something

Originally Posted by steve_r

I'm sure it will be and can be equalised by boost or ballast changes, just like it has been before. No need for everyone to chuck their FWD cars into the skip just yet.

The RWD advantage is emphasised due to the fact that the BMWs have really got their act together, plus the Subarus are going to be the car to beat. In previous years it was less obvious because you just had the BMWs plus the one occasionally competitive Audi

Yup, exactly that. If you look at the BMR programme here:

They have Subaru backing, and plenty of funding from Warren Scott and JP's sponsors
They have one of (if not the absolute) best engineer in the Championship in Carl Faux
They have the best RWD driver in the Championship in Colin Turkington
They have the most successful driver in BTCC history

Say what you want about the car having an advantage, but when you look at those factors it's no surprise they are one of the best cars in the Championship. The fact that James Cole and Warren Scott have yet to score a point would suggest that the car has no unfair advantage. It's simply a very good car that can qualify with no ballast around tracks that suit RWD. It became competitive at the start of the period where the RWD tracks start to flow.

Think of the reverse grid race and R2. Ok the Subarus made contact, but the BMWs were running them close, and it wouldn't be hard to imagine Collard squeezing past without the contact. In R3 we had 2 FWD cars on the podium, and Subarus further down the field unable to drive past everybody.

Reading between the lines of Neal's comments I reckon it's a subtle way of hunting to Honda that they'd like to be able to use the new 4wd (RWD in BTCC obviously) Civic for next season. The suits at Honda HQ aren't going to want to see their car pootling round behind the Subarus and BMW, or that's what he'll hope.

When FWD Honda Civics have won 4 out of the last 5 titles most people could be forgiven for treating this comments with some apathy.

I feel for Rob Austin in all this! Who remember his, 'rules suit FWD far more than RWD' comment when he joined Handy

[Sodemo]

I love the variety so from that point of view, I really don't want to see RWD banned. I personally would like to see AWD allowed too, but that might be too much of a stretch.

In the ST days, the BMWs ran 30Kg heavier and it seemed to work ok. Due to how the NGTC cars are engineered, I personally would be against the notion of applying an even higher weight limit to the RWD cars. I would rather the FWD cars be given a 30Kg weight break instead. The cars are already heavy enough, and I really don’t want to see 1.5 tonne cars lumbering around. The base cars I believe are 1280Kg minus driver and fuel, so if they were to apply a permanent weight penalty, you would probably see something like 60-100Kg applied. All that plus the driver and fuel would raise it towards the 1400-1500kg territory.

I bet the BMWs will have a tough weekend at Snetterton and this will all be brushed under the carpet. The thing is, Honda has traditionally cleaned up at Thruxton these last few years, yet no arguments about performance are raised.

[steve_r]

Knockhill and Rockingham are probably both going to be RWD whitewashes.

[porsche962fan]

when you have RWD 1-2-3-4 in race results you know something is wrong and needs adjusting otherwise all the top teams will go RWD and I don't think Gow really wants a "V8 Supercars Light"

[AdrianM]

Wait to the end of the season and look at the results. I guarantee you the fwd cars will dominate some meetings as well. We just get a few rwd friendly tracks together.

[BillWiskins]

Originally Posted by 850Estate

The fact that James Cole and Warren Scott have yet to score a point would suggest that the car has no unfair advantage.

I can't help but feel that this is a more significant aspect than people are saying... Goff, Tordoff, Collard, Plato, Turkington have all been pretty much consistently quick in whatever they've driven. It isn't alarming to see them at the sharp end, especially when the track suits the cars they have currently.

[bauble]

Tom Ingram and Speedworks are not doing too badly with an Independent FWD Toyota Avensis, it ain't all down to configuration, good engineering and a talented driver can make all the difference. They don't have an unlimited budget either.

[Mike Harte]

And not forgetting the two 888 boys in their outdated (according to some of their previous drivers) MGs. Josh and Ash certainly seem to know how to hustle their FWD cars around a RWD circuit, putting some of the big budget guys to shame.

[porsche962fan]

what the heck are you talking about ???

the Hondas have been castrated after Thuxton with lower boost (as the speed traps show) Motorbase have not been really competitive this year

and in normal dry conditions the FWD cars have no chance against the RWD as things are, Sutton only won cos it was wet and greasy and has the reversed grid too

[redshoes]

I thought the RWD NGTC subrames only work with a longitudinal mounted engine, hence both Audi A4 and Subaru having to be RWD. I would be surprised if the new Honda Civic switched to that engine layout.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by helgi

Excuse me for being a bit of off-topic but is there any info about BoP in BTCC? Not that success ballast but actual balance made by TOCA for engines and (maybe) chassis. Thanks in advance!

Nope, its all done "behind closed doors". Nothing as far as I know is released publicly.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I thought the RWD NGTC subrames only work with a longitudinal mounted engine, hence both Audi A4 and Subaru having to be RWD. I would be surprised if the new Honda Civic switched to that engine layout.

But surely TD would be remounting the engine anyway, so in theory they could change the orientation at the same time?
Plato stated that one of the key features behind the Levorg is that the engine is so far rear and low that it can hardly be considered to be in the engine bay any more (He has said that he virtually sitting on top of it).

[S griffin]

The BTCC is a great way to get a new car and models for the purpose of getting on TV and I have to say that I feel RWD isn't the only thing, when you have a good driver in a car that's the best you're going to have a good day for the brand name of the car.

Although I don't know how much cars have benefited from the BTCC of the recent past

[BSchneiderFan]

Ultimately, the manufacturers will want to run what sells, hence the gradual move from saloons to smaller cars in most cases (Accord to Civic, 3-series to 1-series). In some ways, I'd like to see them allow four-wheel drive again, but it's proved very difficult to balance in the end.

[PabloTeK]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

But surely TD would be remounting the engine anyway, so in theory they could change the orientation at the same time?
Plato stated that one of the key features behind the Levorg is that the engine is so far rear and low that it can hardly be considered to be in the engine bay any more (He has said that he virtually sitting on top of it).

I believe that the rule is you can use RWD if your engine is mounted longitudinally in the road car to avoid having to redesign the whole engine bay? I'm sure it was mentioned that the A4 was RWD because basically the engine + gearbox wouldn't fit in the space provided?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by PabloTeK

I believe that the rule is you can use RWD if your engine is mounted longitudinally in the road car to avoid having to redesign the whole engine bay? I'm sure it was mentioned that the A4 was RWD because basically the engine + gearbox wouldn't fit in the space provided?

I would have expected there to be some sort of regulation in the engine positioning otherwise it could be moved miles and that would drastically alter the weight distribution!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I would have expected there to be some sort of regulation in the engine positioning otherwise it could be moved miles and that would drastically alter the weight distribution!

I don't think there is, which is what Subaru are exploiting. Plato was saying they have a minimum distance prescribed in the regulations from the centre of the rear axle to the bell-housing. Then from there a minimum bell-housing size. In taking both of these, they have positioned the engine as far rearwards as possible. Given the boxer layout, this means the front of the block is roughly around the normal bulkhead position apparently.