The future of Corvette

[FCYTravis]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

DP/P2, whether officially or not, is mostly Pro/Am...

Not so. Half the DP grid, at least, is made up of all-professional teams:

Ganassi 01 - two pro drivers
Stallings 99 - two pro drivers
Taylor 10 - two pro drivers
SOD 90 - two pro drivers
AE 9 - two pro drivers
AE 5 - two pro drivers

Originally Posted by MechanicZ

...mid-engine low tech car with a NASCAR engine disguised as a Corvette...

Perchance explain how the fuel-injected pushrod 5.0L small-block Chevy V8 hooked to a sequential manual transaxle in a Corvette Daytona Prototype is a "NASCAR engine" compared to the... fuel-injected pushrod 5.5L small-block Chevy V8 hooked to a sequential manual transaxle in a Corvette GT2.

Heck, the DP version allegedly has more horsepower (if you believe Chevy's official numbers for the C6R, which I don't) because it's not breathing through an ACO-mandated straw.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by FCYTravis

Not so. Half the DP grid, at least, is made up of all-professional teams:

Ganassi 01 - two pro drivers
Stallings 99 - two pro drivers
Taylor 10 - two pro drivers
SOD 90 - two pro drivers
AE 9 - two pro drivers
AE 5 - two pro drivers

Pro, maybe. GTE quality lineups, no.

Perchance explain how the fuel-injected pushrod 5.0L small-block Chevy V8 hooked to a sequential manual transaxle in a Corvette Daytona Prototype is a "NASCAR engine" compared to the... fuel-injected pushrod 5.5L small-block Chevy V8 hooked to a sequential manual transaxle in a Corvette GT2.

Heck, the DP version allegedly has more horsepower (if you believe Chevy's official numbers for the C6R, which I don't) because it's not breathing through an ACO-mandated straw.

Both being pushrod V8s does not make them the same, nor does it qualify the DP as a Corvette. The DPs' engine(the same as the original DPs' engine) is built by ECR engines, who you might have heard of buiding engines for certain Nascar teams.
As for the DP having more horsepower,it probably does. Yet the C6.R is nearly as fast, way more exciting and an actual CORVETTE! Which, as a mechanic and lifetime Corvette fan, I find rather important.

[FCYTravis]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

The DPs' engine(the same as the original DPs' engine) is built by ECR engines, who you might have heard of buiding engines for certain Nascar teams.

That is the most ridiculous complaint in the history of this forum and it shows that you have not one single shred of perspective about the motorsports industry.

You know who built the motors for every Corvette Racing car in GTS/GT1? Katech, who you might have heard of building V6 engines for the ASA late-model short-track series.

The Corvette C6.R is built by Pratt & Miller, who you might have heard of building tube-frame GT chassis for certain Grand-Am teams.

Ermahgerd, that means your beloved Corvette C6.R is descended from defunct third-tier six-cylinder late-model stock cars and Prep 2 silhouette tube cars. RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY! Shun, shun the awful unpure fakevette! It's been tainted by the fact that it was in the same building and worked on by the same people who touched a GTO.R!

Or maybe it's just that racing is a business and supplier companies will work in a wide variety of series because they don't give a flying **** about the political nonsense that floods Internet forums. If it goes fast and someone's paying their bills, they'll do it.

Seriously, I am still laughing.

Also, you're wrong about the current DP engine being "the same as the original DPs' engine." The current-generation Chevrolet DP engine uses a destroked LS9 block. Yes, the displacement is the same (...because the maximum displacement rule is the same) but it's hardly "the same motor" as the Pontiac-badged LS2 used in 2005 or the LS6 in 2007...

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by FCYTravis

That is the most ridiculous complaint in the history of this forum and it shows that you have not one single shred of perspective about the motorsports industry.

You know who built the motors for every Corvette Racing car in GTS/GT1? Katech, who you might have heard of building V6 engines for the ASA late-model short-track series.

The Corvette C6.R is built by Pratt & Miller, who you might have heard of building tube-frame GT chassis for certain Grand-Am teams.

Ermahgerd, that means your beloved Corvette C6.R is descended from defunct third-tier six-cylinder late-model stock cars and Prep 2 silhouette tube cars. RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY! Shun, shun the awful unpure fakevette! It's been tainted by the fact that it was in the same building and worked on by the same people who touched a GTO.R!

Or maybe it's just that racing is a business and supplier companies will work in a wide variety of series because they don't give a flying **** about the political nonsense that floods Internet forums. If it goes fast and someone's paying their bills, they'll do it.

Seriously, I am still laughing.

Also, you're wrong about the current DP engine being "the same as the original DPs' engine." The current-generation Chevrolet DP engine uses a destroked LS9 block. Yes, the displacement is the same (...because the maximum displacement rule is the same) but it's hardly "the same motor" as the Pontiac-badged LS2 used in 2005 or the LS6 in 2007...

No need to get angry. Basically, we just plain disagree about the DP, which we both knew already. You're emotionally attached to the DP concept, and I dislike the technical aspects and the "Corvette" label.
My point about ECR was that their primary focus is NASCAR. In addition, DP reflects a NASCAR style of road racing.
Katech was focused on the C6.R GT1, and P&M is still Corvette Racing first and foremost. The C6.R is entirely pure, with it's roots in the Corvette road car.

As for the engine, I attempted to research it before my other post, to keep this an informed discussion, and all I could find was another forum stating it was an LS9, and a Road & Track article indicating that it is the same. I assumed the R & T article would be the more accurate, but you certainly could be correct. If you could post a link to a reputable source indicating it to be an LS9, I'd really like to know for sure.

Whatever the case, it still isn't a real Corvette!

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Pro, maybe. GTE quality lineups, no.

I think I need to clarify this statement, too.

01-aging pro/good amateur or low end pro
(comparable to the 48 Porsche in the ALMS last year)
99-low end pro/low end pro
10-aging pro/top end pro
90-top end pro/low end pro, at best
9-pro/good amateur or low end pro
5-pro/good amateur or low end pro

[Mechanic Z]

Really cool poster for the Monterey motorsports reunion:
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/...er/#more-14331

[Mechanic Z]

Corvette Racing seminar at the National Corvette Museum:
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/...2013-ncm-bash/

[FCYTravis]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

99-low end pro/low end pro

That you think Alex Gurney and Jon Fogarty are "low end pros" tells me all I need to know.

[gustavobamba]

When will we see the C7-R race car?????

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

When will we see the C7-R race car?????

Probably in time for the Roar before the 24 test in January next year.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Probably in time for the Roar before the 24 test in January next year.

So late..!!!!... thats a shame.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

So late..!!!!... thats a shame.

I'm sure they will be doing private tests before that, so we may see some photos leaked.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by joeb

I'm sure they will be doing private tests before that, so we may see some photos leaked.

I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that Doug Fehan said that on-track tests would begin in July. I'll miss the C6.R. She's much prettier than the C7, in my opinion.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by FCYTravis

That you think Alex Gurney and Jon Fogarty are "low end pros" tells me all I need to know.

To be fair, neither of them has done any GTLM or LMP1, so I really don't know how they'd stack up against the top line drivers like Gavin, Milner, Sellers, Hand, Smith and Luhr.
I do have to say, I was impressed by Fogarty's interview after he went off at Barber. It was very sportsmanlike and professional.

Gainsco ought to buy a C6.R. Then we would know a bit more about how they rank!

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

To be fair, neither of them has done any GTLM or LMP1, so I really don't know how they'd stack up against the top line drivers like Gavin, Milner, Sellers, Hand, Smith and Luhr.
I do have to say, I was impressed by Fogarty's interview after he went off at Barber. It was very sportsmanlike and professional.

Gainsco ought to buy a C6.R. Then we would know a bit more about how they rank!

L.P.

[FCYTravis]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

To be fair, neither of them has done any GTLM or LMP1, so I really don't know how they'd stack up against the top line drivers like Gavin, Milner, Sellers, Hand, Smith and Luhr.

Fogarty and Gurney beat Hand and Sellers routinely in Toyota Atlantics.

2002 TAC:
Fogarty: 1st, best finish 1st (2x)
Gurney: 3rd, best finish 2nd (2x)
Hand: 12th (partial season), best finish 3rd (1x)

2004 TAC:
Fogarty: 1st, best finish 1st (4x)
Sellers: 6th, best finish 2nd (1x)

There is no reason to expect that given competitive GTE or P1 equipment, that pairing would not be among the best in those fields.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by FCYTravis

Fogarty and Gurney beat Hand and Sellers routinely in Toyota Atlantics.

2002 TAC:
Fogarty: 1st, best finish 1st (2x)
Gurney: 3rd, best finish 2nd (2x)
Hand: 12th (partial season), best finish 3rd (1x)

2004 TAC:
Fogarty: 1st, best finish 1st (4x)
Sellers: 6th, best finish 2nd (1x)

There is no reason to expect that given competitive GTE or P1 equipment, that pairing would not be among the best in those fields.

You are really attempting to compare what happened in a junior formula, from a decade ago, to where drivers are now? So we are comparing Fogarty and Gurney's results, who were in top funded rides, with a part time effort of Hand in an underfunded team and Fogarty's third full time season vs. Seller's first full time season?


To be honest, I don't think choosing Sellers and Hand was a good example of top level pros anyway, as I'd suggest they aren't. They are probably third tier, along with Fogarty and Gurney, at least when considering Sportscar guys only.

First tier would be top Factory drivers in International Series, with success in Prototypes.
Second tier would be top Prototype drivers in International Series, or top Factory drivers in GT.
Third tier would be top drivers in National level series, or lower level factory drivers in GT.

[FCYTravis]

I wouldn't call DSTP an "underfunded team." Buddy Rice won the TAC in a DSTP car in 2000. They might not have been Dorricott, but they weren't Jensen Racing either.

2004 was not Fogarty's "third full-time season," it was his second. Jon only ran two races in 2003.

The point stands: the only real head-to-head competition those drivers have had, Alex and Jon pretty firmly came out ahead.

[JHamilton]

They are all better than me and Ed Brown. That's all I know.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

To be fair, neither of them has done any GTLM or LMP1, so I really don't know how they'd stack up against the top line drivers like Gavin, Milner, Sellers, Hand, Smith and Luhr.

Fogarty has not done Le Mans but he did race a GT2 Porsche for the Flying Lizards in 2004, 2005 and 2006 with multiple podiums in that class and a best finish of 2nd at Sebring in 2006. I'd say he has a fairly good record against other front line GT pilots and is a very solid pro.

DK

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by FCYTravis

The point stands: the only real head-to-head competition those drivers have had, Alex and Jon pretty firmly came out ahead.

Toyota Atlantics is a different discipline from professional sports car racing. I seem to recall Hand winning some sort of 24 hour race in Florida a few years ago, however! (Albeit in a Ganassi car.)

As dxk1 pointed out, Fogarty is a solid driver. Gurney's not too far behind.
The GTE field is just some of the very best. An example is last year: Westbrook and Garcia drove a car in GRAND AM for a previously uncompetitive team, and made it a winner.

I don't think Fogelhund's driver rating is quite accurate, because international series do not necessarily have better drivers than national, nor are prototypes inherently above GT.

Tommy Milner is a good example of a pro driver. He was an average pro, until he really proved himself in the Corvette.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Toyota Atlantics is a different discipline from professional sports car racing. I seem to recall Hand winning some sort of 24 hour race in Florida a few years ago, however! (Albeit in a Ganassi car.)

As dxk1 pointed out, Fogarty is a solid driver. Gurney's not too far behind.
The GTE field is just some of the very best. An example is last year: Westbrook and Garcia drove a car in GRAND AM for a previously uncompetitive team, and made it a winner.

I don't think Fogelhund's driver rating is quite accurate, because international series do not necessarily have better drivers than national, nor are prototypes inherently above GT.

Tommy Milner is a good example of a pro driver. He was an average pro, until he really improved himself in the Corvette.

Apparently I edited out the part that put the last two sentences in context.(My lunch break was almost over, and I finished up in too much of a hurry.)
I was trying to show an example of how much drivers have to push to win in ALMS GT.
Oh well.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by joeb

I'm sure they will be doing private tests before that, so we may see some photos leaked.

If I were a paparazzi, I'd camp at Austin. That backstraight, tight hairpins and sector 1 esses are a nice place to test Le Mans setups.

[HORNDAWG]

Pray tell what does Toyota Atlantics have to do with, Corvette Racing? Oh, thats right, NOTHING!





L.P.

[Mechanic Z]

Neat Corvette up for auction on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/C6RS-...orcev4exp=true