LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by JoeW04

https://youtu.be/yhSQkGOLMec

You might not agree with the direction they have gone... at least they sound good

Superb! We might be stuck with a spec engine but at least it's a spec engine with some character.

[Mike E]

An interesting DSC story about the Gibson here:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...ry-so-far.html

[joeb]

Bleeks testing an lmp2 at Nola today

Check out @jbleekemolen's Tweet: https://twitter.com/jbleekemolen/sta...170582532?s=09

I'm guessing it was the Riley Keating purchased.

[TF110]

Pause it as it comes to the line and it's definitely a Riley.

[Maelochs]

Really eager to see Bleeke in a proto.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Really eager to see Bleeke in a proto.

you mean again?!

[Maelochs]

I don't recall seeing him in a prototype. back to google I guess.

Seems I don't recall a lot of things as i get older ... not sure.

Apparently seven times at Le Mans and once for some demo laps at Bathurst. No memory of any of iti ... and some of it was quite recent.

What Really bugs me is Rebellion in 2012. I was watching that team that year ... or so I thought. Maybe it was actually tractor-pulling or something .... as I get older, everything gets fuzzier.

I guess i was discounting rebellion because the big race was between the fast cars ... but ....

I remember the Tioyota hitting the Deltawing at least.

[chernaudi]

Does anyone know of the reason why LMP2s are allowed to be 4750mm long vs 4650mm long for LMP1, even though they share the same chassis regs and 1000mm/750mm maxes for front and rear overhangs?

[BRG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Does anyone know of the reason why LMP2s are allowed to be 4750mm long vs 4650mm long for LMP1, even though they share the same chassis regs and 1000mm/750mm maxes for front and rear overhangs?

As a guess is it somthing to do with Oreca's last years chassis being upgraded to this years spec (You know favouritism)]

[chernaudi]

IMO, that doesn't explain why everyone had the option to do it (build to a extra 100mm of length).

[Mike E]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...-packages.html

[joeb]

Looks as if the partnership between Riley and Multimatic is going to be changing a bit as the lmp2 project moves forward.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...programme.html

[Akrapovic]

Make sense. But in all honesty, if they're making big changes like that then I'd be replacing Speedsource as the Mazda works team. They're making rookie errors years into the program.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Make sense. But in all honesty, if they're making big changes like that then I'd be replacing Speedsource as the Mazda works team. They're making rookie errors years into the program.

That is fair. I'm not sure how much of this is Mazda DPI specific or Riley P2 specific, and also it is unlcear how much they can change on a homologated chassis.

I thought it was interesting that the Multimatic guys weren't a fan of sending a chassis to Keating to run at Le Mans.

[Akrapovic]

Yeah. Honestly, I think it's pretty bad they're in that position. They bidded to be one of a very limited numbers of LMP2 customer suppliers, and they're saying they shouldn't be doing it. That's not really ideal when you have others like BR Engineering who could've built a car that was better, and be on the grid properly.

[tigas]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah. Honestly, I think it's pretty bad they're in that position. They bidded to be one of a very limited numbers of LMP2 customer suppliers, and they're saying they shouldn't be doing it. That's not really ideal when you have others like BR Engineering who could've built a car that was better, and be on the grid properly.

You must know that this class was born of politics, and NASCAR/IMSA was going to give something to them good'ol' boys in NC (which I believe stands for "NASCAR Country")

Riley was a given because of North Carolina, and Oreca as well (the spec was developed around their base chassis). OAK would be almost impossible to leave out (based at Le Mans and could fold or greatly downsize if not given the contract) and Dallara also has an American base of operations because of the DW12. Two for France, two for the USA.

[chernaudi]

I do hope that the ACO consider a joker mod for LMP2s to address the issues at Le Mans with the LM spec cars. Oreca, Onroak and Dallara have been fairly equal outside of LM in the ELMS, but at LM it wasn't really a contest because Oreca got things right better than everyone else. I know that it's only one race, but it's the most important every year.

Not to mention that there's clearly tons wrong with the Riley. Aero seems off big time for LM and I can't believe that it's 60 kg overweight. I don't know if that's unladen (with out ballast vs others) or in race spec. If it's in race spec, then Riley really screwed things up and it's no wonder then why Multimatic want to have more say in what's going on.

[Akrapovic]

All manufacturers are allowed one joker, which I think they call a performance upgrade, in the 4 year period. Costs a little bit of money, but nothing major. So that should even itself out soon. Ligier proposed an update on the Friday to all of their cars, but needed permission from everybody else. Request was denied, and Ligier didn't want to use their one joker this early in the 4 year cycle. So I expect Dallara and Ligier will use it for next year, whilst ORECA might wait a little.

And yeah, in ELMS they've been basically equal which is awesome. Just the Ligier and Dallara low downforce kits are junk. The Riley...well god knows whats going on with that. If the ACO is determined to stick with limited chassis manufacturers, I hope it gets opened to 5 or 6 in the next generation.

Interesting, in LMP3, the Ligier was awful in low downforce too. Just so slow in a straight line. They asked for permission to modified the rear gurneys, and all the other manufacturers agreed (Norma, Adess and Ginetta were in the race too), which was a nice show of sportsmanship. The Norma still had a straight line advantage and would've won both races if it didn't get rear ended in the first race.

[Articus]

at this point with the P2's why bother with homologation jokers that cost money. Why not just use BOP between the Oreca, Ligier, Dallara like GTE? If a homologation joker allows one to catch up, might as well just do it much more cost effectively with air restrictor/ballast/etc. It's basically a spec class anyway.

[Akrapovic]

That won't work. As soon as you do that you're going to mess with fuel milage (and therefore pit stop times and fuel flow rates), ability to pass in traffic, etc. BoP is really not that simple. It's why SRO uses the easy get out at Spa and gives maximum stint lengths - because then they can make any adjustments without having to worry about the effect on the fuel, which is very hard to balance. Introducing BoP to LMP2 would destroy that.

It's also still meant to be a partially open market. Allowing them to compete for customers, and the best to do well. That's basically what happened - ORECA was fastest in testing, and was easy to upgrade to. That's why we've seen so many in WEC. That probably would've happened in WEC this year, restricted chassis supplier or not. ELMS may have seen more variety however.

[chernaudi]

From what I could tell, the Ligier low downforce kit is just basically the sprint kit with out the dive planes and a different front diffuser profile.

[tigas]

If that's true, that's a massive own goal by Onroak. Are LMP3s that profitable that the only way of supplying enough cars for all the buyers is to disregard other categories?

I had heard on RLM that everybody at Onroak was laying carbon fiber during winter to build LMP3s, even on Christmas Eve, maybe they had the engineers laying fiber as well?

And so, the Ginetta LMP3 debacle (which left a huge hole on the market for Onroak) keeps making more victims

[Damian Baldi]

Here, there is some interesting information about the Riley

Larry Holt speaks to DSC

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...programme.html

[Damian Baldi]

BTW, congratulation to Gibson, the engines has proved to be durable and very fast.

[knighty]

+1.....quite impressive considering the sweltering hot conditions