[BTCC] 2016 BTCC news & rumours

[FIRE]

Interesting discussion.

If BMW for the next gen 1-Series really switches to FWD the best solution would be to forbid RWD.
In the meantime I would keep current rules.

Of course more power in combination with RWD sounds nice but that route shouldn't BTCC go. WTCC maybe but not BTCC.

[S griffin]

The thing I feel BTCC scores over the WTCC, is more variety of cars, therefore the racing should always be better and also unlike the WTCC, aren't trying to make the cars equal every race

[porsche962fan]

wonder if BREXIT means that Honda closes it's UK factories and move them to EU and if this might impact their BTCC program


also Great Britain may become Little Britain with Scotland separating

[RED55]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I don't think there is, which is what Subaru are exploiting. Plato was saying they have a minimum distance prescribed in the regulations from the centre of the rear axle to the bell-housing. Then from there a minimum bell-housing size. In taking both of these, they have positioned the engine as far rearwards as possible. Given the boxer layout, this means the front of the block is roughly around the normal bulkhead position apparently.

Ok hopefully we can clear this up so people understand.

The first ngtc technical regs were made really for fwd with the possibility of rwd being added if someone was interested, that someone turned out to be Rob Austin and his Audi A4 . However the A 4 is a longitude set engine and the xtrac people didn't have a suitable fwd transmission for this application so to get the ngtc car concept going it was allowed to be rwd with and xtrac rwd gearbox but the engine position had to be in the road car position which is hanging out front of the front axle centreline.

Along come WSR wanting to run ngtc cars from BMW , but the engineers state that the ngtc tech regs in place were not good for the BMW so after WSR submitted their design , teams accepted it but threw out some requests like longer or shorter bell housing so the rwd concept wasn't unfairly advantaged and fwd could at least remain on par but for the good of the series all teams understood more cars and variation were required.

It is possible at this time that a certain Engineer already had his eye on the Subaru concept so knew agreeing to the new RWD tech regs could benefit him in the future,nice move.

Along come Subaru with BMR with all the right engineers and completely exploit the RWD format making what can only be described as the ultimate ngtc car, nothing can ever be better layed out than this car because of how WSR exploited the rwd concept in the first place.

The fact that ford and Honda making possible 4wd cars becoming ngtc reality can't happen if the engine in the road car is transverse mounted, they can't just change the engine round to make rwd .

The levorg is really the ultimate ngtc chassis, so it will be up to the teams and Mr Gow to ensure that the levorg doesn't run off into the sunset !

We know that they can keep it all under control and whilst the Subaru Frankenstein has the potential to destroy the series it won't happen and the team and drivers will always be driving a car at less than its potential , where as the fwd brigade will always be at max attack.

I think this season already has been the most exciting for years, even the might of BMR money pit has brought us a big story, controversy and contributed to huge crowds, we certainly can't grumble at the potential for a minimum six way fight for drivers titles come Brands Hatch gp

[porsche962fan]

so you think Mr. Glow will slap it with lower boost or/and more weight ?

back in the days the Audi A4 Quattro , after it won every series it entered in 1996 (BTCC, STW, South African Series, Italian series, Spanish series, Australian series) was slapped with severe penalty weight and banned outright after 1997 (but privateers were still allowed to run them)

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

so you think Mr. Glow will slap it with lower boost or/and more weight ?

back in the days the Audi A4 Quattro , after it won every series it entered in 1996 (BTCC, STW, South African Series, Italian series, Spanish series, Australian series) was slapped with severe penalty weight and banned outright after 1997 (but privateers were still allowed to run them)

The car in 1997 though was a shadow of the 1996 car. I do honestly think it was a classic overreaction due to its 1996 performances. I know in the wet it pretty much dominated everything, however I think in 1997 things had reached a nice level playing field.

I think it will be tough for Gow to specifically hamstring the Subaru unless there is something dubious in the design of the car. If they do something to penalise the Subaru it would surely have to be something that hampers all RWD runners (which on the face of it, seems more likely now the BMWs are regular points finishers now). As I mentioned before, I would prefer to see the FWD cars be given a weight break. As I understand it, the cars now are built under the weight limit, so I think they could do a 20-30kg weight reduction without much drama.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

wonder if BREXIT means that Honda closes it's UK factories and move them to EU and if this might impact their BTCC program


also Great Britain may become Little Britain with Scotland separating

Unlikely, the cost of closing factories and moving production is huge. When the dust has settled I doubt there will be any tariffs on UK exports, Germany for one can't afford to lose UK car sales. Campaign rhetoric from EU countries is one thing but everything comes down to money in the end. Even Obama has back pedalled from his pre EU vote comments already.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think it will be tough for Gow to specifically hamstring the Subaru unless there is something dubious in the design of the car.

if i remember correctly the championship rules state that the organizers can at any time impose restriction/penalty on any entry they deem necessary ?

dunno if possible but they could just outright ban Boxer engine for next year and force BMR to run the TOCA unit if they wanted ????

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

so you think Mr. Glow will slap it with lower boost or/and more weight ?

Perhaps, if the Levorg's massive advantage is due to weight distribution, then the way to 'handle' it is to impose a requirement that a minimum %age of weight is over the front axles.

If the minimum weight at the front axle was say 65%, would this affect the Levorg more than other RWDs?

[psq43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Perhaps, if the Levorg's massive advantage is due to weight distribution, then the way to 'handle' it is to impose a requirement that a minimum %age of weight is over the front axles.

If the minimum weight at the front axle was say 65%, would this affect the Levorg more than other RWDs?

Another good way would be to specify in the regulations that the engine may not be lower down/further back than 'abc' point from 'xyz' point.

[thetool]

Why not save all the hassle ad have everyone use the same chassis with different, wind-tunnel balanced, areo kits?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by thetool

Why not save all the hassle ad have everyone use the same chassis with different, wind-tunnel balanced, areo kits?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The car in 1997 though was a shadow of the 1996 car. I do honestly think it was a classic overreaction due to its 1996 performances. I know in the wet it pretty much dominated everything, however I think in 1997 things had reached a nice level.

I just want to say that the real thing that happened to the Audis was the first half of the year and the off season the same car as the first season of their return to the BTCC was not immediately developed by the team due to the FWD cars being given the priority for the next season and other teams in the series overtook the best team in the series

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by thetool

Why not save all the hassle ad have everyone use the same chassis with different, wind-tunnel balanced, areo kits?

Isn't this effectively what Andy Rouse proposed all those years ago with his spaceframe V8 Touring Car (Supercar?).

[thlbtcc]

Not sure I'm fully onboard with the Subaru having a big advantage, or in the way it has been described.

Of course, I don't have data and I'm not an engineer. But..

At Croft and Oulton, a Honda qualifying second with no weight onboard and out qualified 3 other Subarus. At Croft in particular, which we keep hearing suits RWD, that's impressive.

In Croft Race 2, once the Subaru had ballast onboard, the BMWs were much closer.

So I personally hope TOCA let things play out for the rest of the season before making any changes.

Now Shedden will be running light and 3 BMWs will be heavy, let us see what Snetterton qualifying has in store for us.

[steve_r]

RWD cars filled 8 out of the 9 podiums at Oulton, and before it started raining at Croft 5 of the 6 podiums there. Read into that whatever you like.

Looking at where the Subarus were at the beginning of the season, and because they were more or less using early races as tests, I think it is fair to assume that they have still got plenty more speed to get out of the car. as things stand, I think it is fair to assume that this will be THE car to be in for the foreseeable future.

Having made that sweeping generalisation, Cole and Scot have struggled immensely when compared with their more illustrious teammates. I would rate Turkington and Plato as two of the very fastest drivers out there, maybe THE two fastest, and that needs to be taken into account as well.

Danial Lloyd's last two qualifying sessions have been amazing.

[S griffin]

Yes Lloyd has been amazing lately. True he's had no weight on, but so have his two team mates Smith and Depper. So he's definitely getting the best out of the car

[850Estate]

Front wheel drive top 10 at Snett today in day 2 of the tyre test.

Read into that what you wish

[Tja]

Not much to read into that, who knows what they were doing.
According to TCT some teams tested 2017 spec tyres that are wider than the current ones, no information on the compound though.

[S griffin]

Has anyone heard anymore about that non championship race that was proposed?

[ATF]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Has anyone heard anymore about that non championship race that was proposed?

I vaguely remember reading something about it being postponed until 2017 but from a quick search, I can't find the article.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by ATF

I vaguely remember reading something about it being postponed until 2017 but from a quick search, I can't find the article.

some teams had an idea to do something but they totally abandoned it, not postponed.

[BSchneiderFan]

What would be the purpose of a non-championship race?

[porsche962fan]

DTM back in the days had even 2 non-championship races

one was at Kyalami and the other one at Donington when some BTCC entries were also there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dF3_PJ0SpU

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

DTM back in the days had even 2 non-championship races

one was at Kyalami and the other one at Donington when some BTCC entries were also there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dF3_PJ0SpU

Because back in those days national championships wasn't allowed to race more than once outside its own country. So they had non championship races.