LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[chernaudi]

Better reliability than Porsche and Toyota. IMO, Porsche and Toyota were pushing things hard, while the simple by comparison Gibson V8s were able to take advantage of developments made over the years to get a fairy high revving flat crank V8 to be reliable.

And the GK428 V8 shares it lineage with the ZB408 that was a disaster in the Panoz LMP07, though in all disclosure, that whole car was a disaster, with only the paddle shift system being recycled on the LMP1 roadster face lift in '02.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Damian Baldi

BTW, congratulation to Gibson, the engines has proved to be durable and very fast.

I was going to say something similar. Must be a contender for racing engine of the year, if someone is handing out awards.

[canaglia]

Actually I was really skeptical about gibson/zytek engine. I thought that for lmp2 cars would fit better a 2.5-3.0 V6 turbo instead of a mid sized NA with basically the same figures of a street 458 speciale engine. But anyway, the engine made his work

[Dyson Mazda]

That Riley is a total piece of garbage. Mazda said that they don't have enough down-force at Mosport, the factory team was not even close at Le Mans, and I am starting to feel sorry for SoD at this point.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

That Riley is a total piece of garbage. Mazda said that they don't have enough down-force at Mosport, the factory team was not even close at Le Mans, and I am starting to feel sorry for SoD at this point.

Watching the races its in, it looks like it's a parts bin prototype. The cockpit windscreen on every other prototype is the same width, but the Riley/Mazda is much wider. Just like their lmp3. Way too much drag on the car being reported and that's probably a big part of it.

[chernaudi]

The basic Riley is junk because they focused on the Mazda DPI, and under the current IMSA/ACO agreement, unless Multimatic wants to take the joker upgrades, not much of the development on the Mazda will translate to the Riley.

Granted, it seems that every time the last 20 years that Riley has tried to make a full carbon tubbed car, they failed. Their version of the Cadillac LMP900 was a failure, their Indy Car wasn't that good, and the same goes for the Riley LMP2.

That's ironic, since Bob Riley designed the Mustang GTP, the first successful LMP/GTP type car that used a carbon tub.

[TzeiTzei]

It seems to be very draggy and the straight line speeds are quite bad.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

It seems to be very draggy and the straight line speeds are quite bad.

Just look at it head on compared to every other lmp2 or lmp1. The wider cockpit is obvious and it must account for some of the drag it suffers from.

[Rcz]

How much boost do they give the Mazda?


I know the problems with the car probably isnt a lack power since the Lola version was actually very fast despite it being very old at the time. Which is a shame because the Mazda Dpi is very beautiful.

[Damian Baldi]

With just two cars sold, they should redesign all the car. It's slow, heavy and unreliable.

Check the link I have post some days ago, about Mutimatic to revise several parts of the car that had been delegated to Riley.

Their visit to Le Mans was the worse publicity they could had.

[jee]

ACO and FIA have decided on which parts manufacturers can work on:
Oerca can't do any changes for next year, Dallara is allowed to update the LeMans aero, Ligier both aero sets and Riley can update both aero sets or build a whole new car if they wish to.

[canaglia]

lol development bop

anyway, why ligier should be allowed to update the HD package?
the car is as competitive as oreca, difference is that best lmp2 teams (gdrive, rebellion, etc...) switched for oreca 07 and ligier teams average level is lower than oreca army.
Oreca, ligier and dallara HD packages reached the same performance.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

lol development bop

anyway, why ligier should be allowed to update the HD package?
the car is as competitive as oreca, difference is that best lmp2 teams (gdrive, rebellion, etc...) switched for oreca 07 and ligier teams average level is lower than oreca army.
Oreca, ligier and dallara HD packages reached the same performance.

They have been found to be not on the same level apparently. Teams will be required to submit updates to the ACO to be tested at the Windshear facility to determine their efficacy vs the Oreca. Oreca may be allowed tweaks but not to improve their overall performance according to multiple articles I've seen.

And other than Riley, who may be allowed rehomologation, they are all using their joker update which is allowed and clearly spelled out in the rules. This just establishes the goal of the joker updates, something we all knew would happen.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

They have been found to be not on the same level apparently. Teams will be required to submit updates to the ACO to be tested at the Windshear facility to determine their efficacy vs the Oreca. Oreca may be allowed tweaks but not to improve their overall performance according to multiple articles I've seen.

And other than Riley, who may be allowed rehomologation, they are all using their joker update which is allowed and clearly spelled out in the rules. This just establishes the goal of the joker updates, something we all knew would happen.

Are riley, dallara and ligier spending their joker, aka the only heavy development coin expendable once during the 4 years lmp2 spec lifespan or is a fresh FIA/ACO waiver?

[TF110]

The joker is only going to make the car(s) equal to the Oreca. It won't be allowed to exceed it. If they get it right.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Are riley, dallara and ligier spending their joker, aka the only heavy development coin expendable once during the 4 years lmp2 spec lifespan or is a fresh FIA/ACO waiver?

The way I saw it reported was all are using their joker update. They are allowed to submit multiple revisions it seems as they are being tested against the Oreca to bring them up to that pace. It sounded like the ACO said here's your target, update your cars to it and we'll homologate that as your joker. It sounded like the ACO broke out he old 'spirit of the regs' line again for making the cars more balanced and Oreca might be stuck without getting to use theirs for building a better mousetrap. Plus I think they know if it becomes one make series the chance of them getting bids from others for the next round of LMP2 could be tough if they know going in to a 'balanced at the start' class if they're behind there's goes their business. It's tough for both cause it's supporting a worse design for being bad and the best design gets told to sit in the corner, you're too good at this. But I understand long term how having just the Oreca can lead to companies shutting down or moving on. Think like most of our tree commission appeals hearings, someone will be unhappy at the end every time and you're trying to make the fewest unhappy if possible.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The way I saw it reported was all are using their joker update. They are allowed to submit multiple revisions it seems as they are being tested against the Oreca to bring them up to that pace. It sounded like the ACO said here's your target, update your cars to it and we'll homologate that as your joker. It sounded like the ACO broke out he old 'spirit of the regs' line again for making the cars more balanced and Oreca might be stuck without getting to use theirs for building a better mousetrap. Plus I think they know if it becomes one make series the chance of them getting bids from others for the next round of LMP2 could be tough if they know going in to a 'balanced at the start' class if they're behind there's goes their business. It's tough for both cause it's supporting a worse design for being bad and the best design gets told to sit in the corner, you're too good at this. But I understand long term how having just the Oreca can lead to companies shutting down or moving on. Think like most of our tree commission appeals hearings, someone will be unhappy at the end every time and you're trying to make the fewest unhappy if possible.

Ok, then what will happen when oreca will decide to spend his joker coin?
shall ligier, dallara and riley be allowed to use a "morgana" waiver?

tip for persona games fans

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Ok, then what will happen when oreca will decide to spend his joker coin?

That seems to have been seized for being too good, it was kind of hinted that they'd basically be stuck with the car they built.

[joeb]

Good news, BOP is back!

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/l...p-adjustments/

[Akrapovic]

That article is a little misleading. These rules existed before, almost identical to what they are now. The only addition is the ACO may also balance aero if they wish. Other than that, there is literally no change. It's also not BoP since it doesn't change circuit to circuit, unlike the GTE class which does.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That article is a little misleading. These rules existed before, almost identical to what they are now. The only addition is the ACO may also balance aero if they wish. Other than that, there is literally no change. It's also not BoP since it doesn't change circuit to circuit, unlike the GTE class which does.

Does the frequency of the changes really make it not BOP? To me making changes to the cars to make them more equal, or balanced, is the definition of BOP.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by joeb

Does the frequency of the changes really make it not BOP? To me making changes to the cars to make them more equal, or balanced, is the definition of BOP.

Yep, once or 7 times, it is still balancing the performance between the entries (constructors) ... i.e. BOP.







L.P.

[carbsmith]

It's not BoP when they've never actually used it in the years the rule has been in the books. It will be if they do. All that's happened is someone realized that a 5% engine power penalty doesn't make much sense when they have a spec engine without an air restrictor so they replaced it with the option to force wing angles, gurneys, diveplanes, etc. like IMSA does.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

It's not BoP when they've never actually used it in the years the rule has been in the books. It will be if they do. All that's happened is someone realized that a 5% engine power penalty doesn't make much sense when they have a spec engine without an air restrictor so they replaced it with the option to force wing angles, gurneys, diveplanes, etc. like IMSA does.

Hmm, and was not the 'Joker' utilized to balance the performance between the chassis? So BOP was actually/technically used. It just occurred in the off season.





L.P.

[Akrapovic]

No, the joker requires a manufacturer to actually go out and develop a kit. BoP simply adds or removes a from a set of variables and is dictated purely through the governing body. Just because something is balanced, or balancing, does not make it Balance of Performance.

I just think the article is click-bait. There's literally no change to the LMP2 regulations except aero has been added to the list of things they're allowed to change. To have the headline "LMP2 Subject to BoP Adjustments" suggests it's something new to the class and something that's actively happening.

Yes you can make the argument that 1 adjustment is BoP, but that's a matter of opinion and I disagree that that isn't exactly what BoP is. However the rest of it is just click bait...again.

I generally have no problem with BoP. But I'd like things reported accurately and honestly. Remember that these provisions existed in the previous generation LMP2 regulations as well and were never used despite large performance gaps. That's how much of a non-event this is.