What is Aston Martin up to?

[Simmi]

Meanwhile, in non LMP1 news. Gulf AMR Middle East testing at the Bugatti circuit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntmhizc1gtM

[TF110]

The Vantage GT2 is a lovely machine. That much can't be said for their new Prototype though IMO. Maybe they'll change it up a bit, have some updated aero and it might be a bit more appealing. Maybe!

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

GH-C's outlook at the launch was helpfully evasive! A sort of 'that's for us to know and others to find out' feel pervaded some of the more detailed tech questions.

I'm no aerodynamicist so will bow to Mike's more specialist knowledge on that front - The one additional nugget I can add though is that George was particularly evasive on the issue of what they expected their chosen package to achieve on that front.

Surely the logical interpretation of GH-C's replies (or lack of) is that AMR don't actually know what they have got. The car hasn't seen a wind tunnel (thus far), nor a track. Theories, yes, but no actual data. I don't blame George for being evasive (unless I've completely misunderstood the nature of the questions being asked).

[The Badger]

Interesting to see the mechanic crew wearing Prodrive jackets .

Is there any tie up with Prodrive ?

[Tim the Grey]

Apart from AMR BEING Prodrive, none that I know of...

[KA]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Apart from AMR BEING Prodrive, none that I know of...

IIRC, the AMR Middle East team is actually being run by Dave Price. Presumably as one of the AMR partner teams, the deal includes some tech support from Prodrive/AMR?

[Tim the Grey]

That is the deal, I believe. Sorry, I hadn't seen the video, and thought Badger was being mischevious, as usual...

Certainly, when JMW took on the Vantage, there were Prodrive badged overalls around the place...

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Surely the logical interpretation of GH-C's replies (or lack of) is that AMR don't actually know what they have got. The car hasn't seen a wind tunnel (thus far), nor a track. Theories, yes, but no actual data. I don't blame George for being evasive (unless I've completely misunderstood the nature of the questions being asked).

I have to agree here. They, as of now, with the lack of testing, don't really know where they stand as far as the hard facts yet. This isn't helped that none of these new cars haven't turned a wheel in anger in the public eye yet really (yes, there were photos of the Audi R18 test at Sebring, as well as estimated lap times, but we don't really know how accurate they were, nor do we have much of a direct reference).

If AMR (or Audi and Peugeot for that matter) don't know exactly where they stand right now, how could we do the same as far as hard, factual, on track performance? However, design wise, the AMR is very simpilistic compared to the R18 or the new 908, and does, in looks and some specs (like the suspension) look very outdated on paper.

And if it's true that AMR has spent about 15 million British Pounds on the AMR-One, that's not a lot compared to Audi or Peugeot, but that's more than Henri Pescarolo spent on his programs yearly, and he milked a lot out of what in most ways by 2009 was a 10 year old chassis design--a design that's had a lot of evolution, however.

That said, Henri had one big advantage on the cost/production front over AMR right now. Henri started out with a customer car that he customized for his wants/needs, like AMR did with their Lolas in the past. AMR had to start with scratch, and with the budget and time given, this is probably the best the could do given those constrants for right now.

This car may surprise in the end, as it's design does seem to leave a fair bit of room for evolution, but it'll take time, something that this program has been fairly short of. Candidly, I don't expect much from the new AMR quickly, and that we should expect a gradual, and perhaps marked, evolution, especially as the car gets more track and R&D time.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Apart from AMR BEING Prodrive, none that I know of...

AMR Middle East ..... I thought it was originally a French team set by Giroux ..... and not AMR directly .

[chernaudi]

If it's got an "Aston Martin Racing" windshield banner or decal on the car, it's got some sort of factory support connection to Prodrive and/or AMR, but how much isn't known, and likely may vary from case to case, due to the cars' classification or, possibly, the team itself and the series being competed.

[Tim the Grey]

Chernaudi? Just where are you getting the numbers from???
£15 mill sounds about right to run a full on works effort for a year! Considering that's supposed to be around half of an F1 budget just now...

I might, JUST, let 1.5 mill go, but that still sounds high to me, unless they have spent serious money on a tunnel!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I have to agree here. They, as of now, with the lack of testing, don't really know where they stand as far as the hard facts yet. This isn't helped that none of these new cars haven't turned a wheel in anger in the public eye yet really (yes, there were photos of the Audi R18 test at Sebring, as well as estimated lap times, but we don't really know how accurate they were, nor do we have much of a direct reference).

If AMR (or Audi and Peugeot for that matter) don't know exactly where they stand right now, how could we do the same as far as hard, factual, on track performance? However, design wise, the AMR is very simpilistic compared to the R18 or the new 908, and does, in looks and some specs (like the suspension) look very outdated on paper.

And if it's true that AMR has spent about 15 million British Pounds on the AMR-One, that's not a lot compared to Audi or Peugeot, but that's more than Henri Pescarolo spent on his programs yearly, and he milked a lot out of what in most ways by 2009 was a 10 year old chassis design--a design that's had a lot of evolution, however.

That said, Henri had one big advantage on the cost/production front over AMR right now. Henri started out with a customer car that he customized for his wants/needs, like AMR did with their Lolas in the past. AMR had to start with scratch, and with the budget and time given, this is probably the best the could do given those constrants for right now.

This car may surprise in the end, as it's design does seem to leave a fair bit of room for evolution, but it'll take time, something that this program has been fairly short of. Candidly, I don't expect much from the new AMR quickly, and that we should expect a gradual, and perhaps marked, evolution, especially as the car gets more track and R&D time.

What does anyone really know about the design other than a few visual cues?

Every car on the grid follows the same template so it would be logical for Aston to do the same unless that £15m budget, higher than anyone outside the big two, and experience with the Lola has given them confidence to follow such a unique design concept.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Chernaudi? Just where are you getting the numbers from???
£15 mill sounds about right to run a full on works effort for a year! Considering that's supposed to be around half of an F1 budget just now...
...

Thats not half of an F1 budget. An F1 budget is more in the range of $100m++

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Chernaudi? Just where are you getting the numbers from???
£15 mill sounds about right to run a full on works effort for a year! Considering that's supposed to be around half of an F1 budget just now...

I might, JUST, let 1.5 mill go, but that still sounds high to me, unless they have spent serious money on a tunnel!

Mike said that the AMR-One program has cost about 15 Million. I don't know if it was in pounds or USD (and I tried to track down that post), but it's easy to assume that it's pounds, as this is a British based program and GHC probably wouldn't convert that figure to USD. Even if it's in millions of dollars, that's still a lot less (and massively so!) than Audi and Peugeot.

It defninely could be pounds, as this is a program that AMR had to develop from scratch, which 15 million pounds (about 25-30 million USD, give or take rounded math and a few million dollars), let alone 15 million USD, isn't a lot when Audi and Peugeot have been known to spend 75-100 million USD on their programs to get them started, and the start up investment is the major cost.

What we need is cost in a common denomination (USD, Euros, BLbs, etc.) to get a sense, but we can guess how much Audi and Peugeot have spent, which is plenty more that AMR at this stage. And the Audi and Pug budgets are still only a fraction (albeit sizable) of the budget that most F1 teams had, especially a few years ago, which ranged well into the $200+ million and above range (I don't know if that's dropped off, but I'll bet that many F1 teams still spend more than $100 million, especially the closer you get to the pointy end of the grid).

If the AMR figure is in USD in stead of Brit Lbs, that's not good news. 15 million lbs is bad enough on the financial front, and today it almost certianly cost more than $15 million USD to start up a factory LMP program basically from scratch, especially on the scale of AMR's goals.

Ed: According to the currency conversion I used, the exchange rate is $1 US roughly equals .62 Lbs, or, basically 1 USD is about 5/8 of a British pound.

So if the AMR figure is in pounds, then 15 million pounds is about $25 million dollars, give or take a couple of million. Can someone confirm what denomination the 15 million figure is in to avoid further confusion on my and all our parts, as I can't find an article about the AMR-One program's cost thus far?

[Aysedasi]

I can't but I am having trouble stifling a yawn.... sorry.....

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

So if the AMR figure is in pounds, then 15 million pounds is about $25 million dollars, give or take a couple of million. Can someone confirm what denomination the 15 million figure is in to avoid further confusion on my and all our parts, as I can't find an article about the AMR-One program's cost thus far?

You will never find out what the budget is whether you put in it Yen, Thai baht, USD, GBP, Euro or any other currency. It will only be rumour.

The only fact you will have is how fast it is when it races, because that is for the eye to see.

[Graham Goodwin]

And now first news of yet another new Aston Racer - First teaser pics of the new Vantage GT3 on dsc free

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Mike said that the AMR-One program has cost about 15 Million. I don't know if it was in pounds or USD (and I tried to track down that post), but it's easy to assume that it's pounds, as this is a British based program and GHC probably wouldn't convert that figure to USD. Even if it's in millions of dollars, that's still a lot less (and massively so!) than Audi and Peugeot.

If you have done the effort to look at the previous messages in this topic, you would have found the real source of the claimed AMR budget and the currency:

Originally Posted by JAG

Autosport say Aston's budget is 50% the size of it's major rivals at £15m.

The cars were sold for £1.5m apiece with Aston contributing £1.5m.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Wims

Thats not half of an F1 budget. An F1 budget is more in the range of $100m++

30 million pound was the budget cap that was proposed by Mosley for 2010. Later it was raised to 40 million (see here). However, the proposal never materialized.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Meanwhile, in non LMP1 news. Gulf AMR Middle East testing at the Bugatti circuit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntmhizc1gtM

Thanks for posting that Simmi! Wonderful vision and sound. A beautiful car which will look even better in that Gulf livery. Its a shame Aston doesnt have a works team with a pair of pros in 2011 in GT but they're a bit distracted at the moment .

[Steptoe]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Yeah, that's no render:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...D67673EDFA83F9

Have I missed somthing ? There are lots of references to turbo 6cyl with 500+ bhp but have I missed the engine size somewhere? Can anyone shed some light....... Also on the rear end shots is there a bit of an 'F Duct' thing happening ?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Steptoe

Have I missed somthing ? There are lots of references to turbo 6cyl with 500+ bhp but have I missed the engine size somewhere? Can anyone shed some light....... Also on the rear end shots is there a bit of an 'F Duct' thing happening ?

2-liter, that's the maximum for turbocharged LMP1 engines.

Oddly, maximum size for turbocharged LMP2 engines is larger, but they're choked more by restrictors in order to reduce their power to acceptable levels.

[Tim the Grey]

I think LMP2 turbos must be Road Car derived, where the LMP1 regs allow full race engines. Isn't there an engine price cap, too, in P2?

Thanks Gwyllion, for confirming I hadn't dreamed that F1 cost cap. It shows how much attention I pay though, that I hadn't clocked it's demise! I still reckon 15million quid will run AMR for the YEAR. Pays for an awful lot of salmon sandwiches!

[chernaudi]

What interest me is how much HPD spent on the Acura ARX-02 LMP1 program and how that compares with AMR, which has been confirmed (thanks Gwyllion) to be 15 million lbs/$25 million (and because the AMR deal seems to be multi-faceted--LM/ILMC, ALMS, customer cars--while the ARX-02 was ALMS only). Still not a lot of money for a program that's as ambitious as AMR desire, but a lot better than $15 million. However, I do doubt that that's half of what Audi and Peugeot have spent, as Audi was claimed to spend $15 million on an ALMS season for the R8 and R10 in the past, and that both programs were on the virge of costing $100 million to start up. Of course, once that's gotten started, the cost will be less than that initial investment, but R&D and such will still absorb a lot of a yearly budget that may trail off to the $50 million that GHC estimates.

On the engine deal, all LMP2 engines have to have a stock-block base, with a 3.2 turbo V6/inline 6, homologated GT2 engines of up to 4.0 liters, and a 5.0 stock block NA V8 being the proscribed rules for the new LMP2 cars.

Given that Aston Martin themselves are contemplating adopting the straight 6 for their future road cars (probably based on half the current V12), could there be a stock block LMP2 lump based on the Aston road car inline 6 if it comes to fruition?

And, if the AMR-One's engine is successful, could there be a customer engine program, as that seems to be the route that many gasoline engine manufactures are going at the moment?

[Tim the Grey]

Aston do seem to be in no man's land on LMP2 spec engines, right now.
4.5 litre GT2 Vantage, and GT4/road spec 4.7 litre Vantage...

Neither fish, nor fowl, nor good red meat, it would seem?