[BTCC] Round Eight, Thruxton 27-28 Aug, Races 22,23&24

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by yellowbeard

But he drives a BMW, it's Ash that drives the 4rd

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Most of the lap time at Thruxton comes mid-corner, where FWD has an advantage.

Forgive me for quoting your point, but traditionally RWD had always been better than FWD mid-corner...?

[BTCC frog]

Did anyone catch what happened with Ash Hand in race one? It looked to me as though he made contact with Ricky Collard coming towards the chicane while running around tenth place and went sideways across the chicane to end up in fifth, and was allowed to keep that position despite having gained a significant advantage from cutting the chicane (albeit out of control). Did he get any kind of penalty for this, or has it been mentioned by any of the drivers at all?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by yellowbeard

But he drives a BMW, it's Ash that drives the 4rd

well spotted

[Jay87]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

Did anyone catch what happened with Ash Hand in race one? It looked to me as though he made contact with Ricky Collard coming towards the chicane while running around tenth place and went sideways across the chicane to end up in fifth, and was allowed to keep that position despite having gained a significant advantage from cutting the chicane (albeit out of control). Did he get any kind of penalty for this, or has it been mentioned by any of the drivers at all?

I thought it was Crees that had the contract with collard and cut the chicane. Could be wrong but I thought hand was further in front when that happened

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Most of the lap time at Thruxton comes mid-corner, where FWD has an advantage.

What just as the understeer kick in? Every day is a school day

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Forgive me for quoting your point, but traditionally RWD had always been better than FWD mid-corner...?

Andy Jordan in 2017 described it as being able to apply throttle corrections mid corner in a FWD car, that he couldn't in a RWD. He said that in RWD, he'd have to wait longer to get on the throttle or he would lose the rear.

[hen henths]

It's nice to see those Fords on the pace at last. Well done to Dan Cam. I can't help but wonder how Mat Jackson would do if you put him in one now.

Originally Posted by FFSM

Wish both Mike and Colin a speedy recovery.

Same here.

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

Did anyone catch what happened with Ash Hand in race one? It looked to me as though he made contact with Ricky Collard coming towards the chicane while running around tenth place and went sideways across the chicane to end up in fifth, and was allowed to keep that position despite having gained a significant advantage from cutting the chicane (albeit out of control). Did he get any kind of penalty for this, or has it been mentioned by any of the drivers at all?

No because collard drove into the side of him because that's all he's good at.

[porsche962fan]

maybe some changes with Hybrid for Silverstone?
1) given the track is very short
2) with just two real braking points maybe issues to recharge it ?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

maybe some changes with Hybrid for Silverstone?
1) given the track is very short
2) with just two real braking points maybe issues to recharge it ?

Two braking points ? Same as Thruxton?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Two braking points ? Same as Thruxton?

porsche962fan has a valid point here.

Yes, Thruxton and Silverstone National both have two 'real' braking points. The difference though is the length of both the braking distances and the race.

The current BTCC hybrid system means that the cars might not (normally) generate enough charge under braking to match a full race deployment - and the battery will be depleted at the end of the race. With this in mind, when you compare the demands of Thruxton and Silverstone National, they are very different.

First of all - some specs:
The hybrid system holds a charge of 1.5 kWh.
The hybrid deployment peaks at 30kW.

At Thruxton, the maximum deployment over a full race is 1.875 kWh - so the system only needs to generate 0.375 kWh during the race to last a full distance. The circuit design means that, particularly into the chicane, the level of deceleration is high and so regeneration is easily achieved.

At Silverstone National, the maximum deployment over a full race is 2.625 kWh - so the system needs to generate 1.125 kWh during the race. The braking distances are shorter at Silverstone National, so there is a realistic chance that the system might not be able to fully regenerate during the race.

[Adam43]

If the lap is shorter those braking points come round more often. Doesn’t that help. How many laps is each race at each circuit? So how many brakes per race. That is more critical if the rule is how much per race rather than per lap.

Excuse my ignorance. But how do they decide the maximum deployment over the race?
And how do the drivers manage when it is deployed?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

If the lap is shorter those braking points come round more often. Doesn’t that help. How many laps is each race at each circuit? So how many brakes per race. That is more critical if the rule is how much per race rather than per lap.

Excuse my ignorance. But how do they decide the maximum deployment over the race?
And how do the drivers manage when it is deployed?

I'll try and answer each point in order.

If the lap is shorter those braking points come round more often. Doesn’t that help. - Yes, true. The braking does occur more often with more laps. The issue is that the (pre-season) allowance was set at 15 seconds per lap, regardless of lap length. This was recognised when they got to Brands Indy earlier in the year, and the deployment was capped at 10 seconds per lap for Brands Indy, Knockhill and Silverstone National. The length of time on brakes is much more at Thruxton (even with only two zones) though, so even with less laps they still brake more over the 20 minute race (time is another factor to consider).

How many laps is each race at each circuit? So how many brakes per race.
Ignoring Safety Cars (during which they can't deploy anyway) the lap count is 16 laps for Thruxton and 22 laps for Silverstone. So 32 and 44 braking zones respectively.

But how do they decide the maximum deployment over the race? - the amount of laps that hybrid is available (if drivers are not subject to HEMS balance) is race distance minus one. So 15 laps at Thruxton and 21 laps at Silverstone. The deployment rate is 30kW, for a maximum of 15 seconds per lap.

I gave slightly incorrect figures earlier. 15 laps of 15 seconds (225 seconds total) at Thruxton equates to a total of 1.875 kWh over the race distance (if they have 15 laps under green flag). But with the amendment made earlier this season, the deployment is 21 laps of 10 seconds at Silverstone (210 seconds) so the actual deployment is 1.749999 kWh.

My initial post was based on the full 15 seconds being available (the pre-season figures) but actually the amount of hybrid required at Silverstone is less then Thruxton after the in-season adjustment referred to earlier.

So - porsche962fan has a valid point:
maybe some changes with Hybrid for Silverstone?
1) given the track is very short
2) with just two real braking points maybe issues to recharge it ?

but this has already been addressed with the adjustment made at the Brands Indy round - so the changes have already been made.

I think in summary - Silverstone (and all short BTCC tracks) require a different approach to hybrid deployment. But this has already been recognised by TOCA and adjustments to the allocation have been made.

To answer the final point - And how do the drivers manage when it is deployed? - the driver can use it whenever they are above a certain speed and have full traction, for a maximum of 15 seconds (10 seconds at Silverstone, Knockhill and Brands Indy) per lap. Except for the first lap of the race, and first lap after a safety car.