[Team] Alpine: The cars are Racing Points

[S griffin]

If Ricciardo does return to Alpine, wonder what bet he will make with Rossi or Otmar?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

If Ricciardo does return to Alpine, wonder what bet he will make with Rossi or Krack?

Yes - it would be interesting to see.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So - did Alonso's switch really come as a surprise for the team?

Fernando Alonso has denied that his manager Flavio Briatore was the architect behind his shock F1 switch from Alpine to Aston Martin.

off topic but from that article:

“Those comments that I read, they were sad to read. I’ve been doing my thing always. Flavio had been coming to some races but as you may know, with all the deals he has with Stefano and F1 and paddock club, but not related to me.”

All the deals???

was not aware that F1/FOM was still doing business with Flavour Flav?

had not read about this before but cant say im surprised. anyways, love the Alonso truth bombs!

[peebee2]

Is Rossi hoping this will give Alpine a massive PR boost?

24% of Alpine/Renault F1 team being sold off to a consortium including Ryan Reynolds.

[Gerard C]

This? https://fr.motorsport.com/f1/news/al...uros/10487758/

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

This? https://fr.motorsport.com/f1/news/al...uros/10487758/

Yes, values the team around £700m.

[crmalcolm]

Wrexham's Hollywood owners Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney join group buying into Alpine F1


'Hollywood actors Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney are joining an investor group taking a 24 per cent equity stake in Alpine Racing.

The Formula 1 team's parent company Renault announced the move on Monday, with the €200m (£171m) deal valuing British-based Alpine at around £700m following the investment.

Alec Scheiner, the co-founder and partner of Otro Capital, will join Alpine's board of directors.'

There are a lot of connections to the US in this deal.
The obvious link is Netflix, with both D2S and Welcome to Wrexham streaming on that platform. Will Alpine become the most marketed team in F1 now amongst streaming audiences?


With RedBird in the mix, the portfolio of US sports is already large, and this deal surely pushes the focus even more to the American market?

[Gerard C]

crmalcom's questions:"There are a lot of connections to the US in this deal.
The obvious link is Netflix, with both D2S and Welcome to Wrexham streaming on that platform. Will Alpine become the most marketed team in F1 now amongst streaming audiences? With RedBird in the mix, the portfolio of US sports is already large, and this deal surely pushes the focus even more to the American market?" From this link https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...154066&page=14

[Gerard C]

Trying to push the brand over the Pond? https://www.capital.fr/auto/renault-...losive-1472375
https://www.automobile-magazine.fr/v...-si-importante


Renault n'est pas a son premier coup pour la voiture électrique aux USA:https://www.renaultgroup.com/news-on...ue-americaine/

[chillibowl]

While 200m for a 24% stake doesn’t include Viry-Chtillon, this is still quite a big increase in an F1 evaluation since the sale of Force India and Williams no?

Probably justified given F1s increasing profile, inflation, and relative to other globally recognized sports teams, but kind of curious where Andretti were on this and why this wasn’t an option for them given that 200m is the same amount as the entry fee and that they were working with Renault?

Anywho, interesting addition for a team that has, imo, struggled with identity for quite some time now.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

While 200m for a 24% stake doesn’t include Viry-Chtillon, this is still quite a big increase in an F1 evaluation since the sale of Force India and Williams no?

From general searches, it seems that the valuation of F1 teams is very difficult to pin down, particularly if they are part of a wider business profile:


2000 - Minardi - $10m (100% stake)
2005 - Sauber - $79m (63.25% stake of 50m)
2017 - McLaren - £1.8bn (15% stake of 275m)
2020 - Racing Point - £1.08bn (16.7% stake of 182m)
2020 - Williams - £136m (100% stake of 136m)
2023 - Mercedes - £1.2bn (33% stake of 400m)

[NaBUru38]

The team should have been bought by Chris al-Pine...

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

From general searches, it seems that the valuation of F1 teams is very difficult to pin down, particularly if they are part of a wider business profile

Yep. I dont see how Viry Chatillon which belong to Renault could be separetly sold. Is all this inspired by the football model? Waiting for a mercato where drivers can be sold or rented or may be a leasing with buy-back option?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

From general searches, it seems that the valuation of F1 teams is very difficult to pin down, particularly if they are part of a wider business profile:


2000 - Minardi - $10m (100% stake)
2005 - Sauber - $79m (63.25% stake of 50m)
2017 - McLaren - £1.8bn (15% stake of 275m)
2020 - Racing Point - £1.08bn (16.7% stake of 182m)
2020 - Williams - £136m (100% stake of 136m)
2023 - Mercedes - £1.2bn (33% stake of 400m)

Williams really sold out for way too little money!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Williams really sold out for way too little money!

That figure is (roughly) what the Williams shareholders received after the debts were paid by Dorilton.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Williams really sold out for way too little money!

In hindsight yes. And I have to wonder if anyone else was in the running and offering more than Dorilton? Was Dorilton the best deal that Williams could find at that time?

If I remember correctly, the Dorilton deal was happening right at around the time the new Concorde agreement was being signed. And that the agreement had been delayed, so I assume remaining detail of that agreeement were being worked out maybe around the time the final details of the purchase of Williams was. The implication is that the minimum value of $200M was almost, but just not quite yet in place. Looking back now, if the Williams family could have held on a bit longer and then seen how the value of a team (any team) would skyrocket, they should have been able to sell for more than $200M. But it seems that Williams was grasping for straws to remain in the sport at that time and was a distressed seller. In the end Dorilton got a fantastic deal.

As to those historic values, you would have to think that there is a value placed on the F1 entry (now at a minimum of $200M and probably should be much more) and then the value of other assets. If we are to believe the information coming from James Vowles (internal Williams infrastructure is way behind other teams and requires significant CapEx to modernize) then you can imagine why others were more highly valued.

Richard

[chillibowl]

for sure, but still hard to imagine debt repayment and/or their aged infrastructure coming anywhere near to reducing their value by several hundred million dollars?

but more so, doesnt make much sense that F1 teams dont seem to be valued at very much more than the Ottawa Senators, a mid to low level NHL hockey team that Reynolds and co were looking to buy an equity stake in earlier this year but apparently pulled out because that was too expensive.

not a great analogy mind you given that while an NHL team (and its arena) may be worth more than an F1 team, an F1 team is no doubt significantly far more expensive to fund/maintain on an annual basis which i would think bears out in the purchase price of one.

anywho, as Canadian i must say i am very happy we have another Canadian in the owners' box!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

From general searches, it seems that the valuation of F1 teams is very difficult to pin down, particularly if they are part of a wider business profile:


2000 - Minardi - $10m (100% stake)
2005 - Sauber - $79m (63.25% stake of 50m)
2017 - McLaren - £1.8bn (15% stake of 275m)
2020 - Racing Point - £1.08bn (16.7% stake of 182m)
2020 - Williams - £136m (100% stake of 136m)
2023 - Mercedes - £1.2bn (33% stake of 400m)

I think you missed a couple:

2005 - Jaguar - $1 (100% stake)
2009 - Brawn - $1 (100% stake)



I can't remember how much debt Jagaur F1 was carrying when Ford sold it to Red Bull but I guess it was considerable.

Meanwhile, Honda not only sold the team for $1, they paid for the running costs for the 2009 season too IIRC.

There's also:

2006 - Spyker $106.6m USD (100%)
2007 - Force India $118m USD (100%)

[Born Racer]

Merged two threads covering the same ground.

[S griffin]

I don't think Alpine will upset the applecart too much in their own team. They actually have a good team of people, so need to change much, but a bit of extra funding is always welcome! They've certainly done quite alright under this guise, even if they haven't quite made it yet

[GTRMagic]

Is it a front gif the Andretti Worldwide group

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I don't think Alpine will upset the applecart too much in their own team. They actually have a good team of people, so need to change much, but a bit of extra funding is always welcome! They've certainly done quite alright under this guise, even if they haven't quite made it yet

Interesting view of the situation, particularly in light of Rossi's recent comments.

"It's an industry that has been doing more or less the same thing for so long that it's become a norm that it takes that much time to get there. It's true for everything. It's true for road cars. We are trying to change things here. But for that you need to put yourself in a bit of a tricky situation, an uncomfortable situation. If you do that, it works. I guess they've [Aston Martin] done it in a more radical way, put themselves in a more uncomfortable situation, to break some barriers, to change a little bit the way they were doing it."

Perhaps Alpine are ready to 'upset the applecart' internally. Or, are they admitting that they are sticking to the same 100-race (now 120-race) plan?

[GTRMagic]

The part to see though is the 24% but seems to only be for the f1 team, and not the engine factory. Is this Renault attempting an exit as a team, and going back to engine supply only

[P38 in workshop]

I'd regard that as illogical,given how much the values and revenues of teams has increased in the last year or two.I could be mistaken in believing that it has been a case of taking some of the profit while it was feasible to do so.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I'd regard that as illogical,given how much the values and revenues of teams has increased in the last year or two.I could be mistaken in believing that it has been a case of taking some of the profit while it was feasible to do so.

I agree. 24% is significant but far from controlling. Depends if there is any shareholder agreement in place, or what the Articles of Association (or equivalent) state regarding share options as to the likelyhood of the new shareholders gaining control.