[Official] Round 6: Monaco Grand Prix

[chunterer]

Perez was a OTT but it was sure exciting to watch. The reason you have the run off area at the chicane is to promote overtaking and keep cars in the race should they arrive at funny angles!

It was a shame about the Kimi biff, but it was inevitable and please people don't keep saying he was wronged, he knew full well he was coming because he was watching his left side mirror into there every lap and to be frank Kimi was naive to think Perez wouldn't try it on, as he had made the moves there already several times that race.

I'm not condoning contact at all, but we must not savage drivers for trying ballsy overtakes. What I hate to see is damaged cars as a result of overtakes but that's a strong possibility with any move at Monaco unless the driver in front is willing to spare some room. Therefore there has to be some common sense on the aggressor and the defender's parts.

Come to think of it, how many of us used to applaud Montoya's opportunism and Lewis's 'rough em up' driving in the past, both drivers who have endured their fair share of crashes as a result of failed overtakes in the past?

A lot of the anti Perez stuff seems to have a bitterness that lies somewhere else I feel, perhaps because he is seen as having taken Hamilton's seat or apparently being seen as not McLaren 'quality'.

[321Go]

Kimi vs Perez-Kimi was at fault. No doubt about it in my mind. Kimi turned in a lot earlier than he normally did. He squeezed Perez onto the wall.

Funny thing is, Kimi saying what he has said about Perez makes him a funny guy, or a "cool dude". Can you imagine if say... Hamilton said exactly what Kimi did??? The uproar it would have caused.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Kimi turned in a lot earlier than he normally did.

Perhaps the actual data suggests otherwise?

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Funny thing is, Kimi saying what he has said about Perez makes him a funny guy, or a "cool dude". Can you imagine if say... Hamilton said exactly what Kimi did??? The uproar it would have caused.

Exactly. It would have it's own 20 page thread on here by now.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Come to think of it, how many of us used to applaud Montoya's opportunism and Lewis's 'rough em up' driving in the past, both drivers who have endured their fair share of crashes as a result of failed overtakes in the past?

Thing is, neither of those guys were that frequent with crashes and stuffing things up. Very rarely actually, just one or two high profile errors.

Perez hit more people in Bahrain and Monaco than Montoya and Hamilton managed in their F1 careers combined I would imagine.

I accused him of being way too tentative early in the season and now he has gone too far the other way. There is a fine balance to be found here. I am hopeful he will because he is showing OK, although I sense Button has let his head drop and isn't quite driving as quick as he would if things were going well.

[chillibowl]

im trying to recall where Kimi drove into the back of Sutil during the 2008 race here...was it in the same spot?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im trying to recall where Kimi drove into the back of Sutil during the 2008 race here...was it in the same spot?

Yeah, he lost it under braking after the tunnel. Wasn't an overtaking attempt, just a desperately bad driving error.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Thing is, neither of those guys were that frequent with crashes and stuffing things up. Very rarely actually, just one or two high profile errors.

Perez hit more people in Bahrain and Monaco than Montoya and Hamilton managed in their F1 careers combined I would imagine.

I accused him of being way too tentative early in the season and now he has gone too far the other way. There is a fine balance to be found here. I am hopeful he will because he is showing OK, although I sense Button has let his head drop and isn't quite driving as quick as he would if things were going well.

I think there is a fine line between completing headline overtakes with 2 cars surviving ok, and those where one or both end up shedding bodywork and wheels. Juan 'got away' with it several times when on another day he might not have lol!

It does though seem like McLaren unleashed a monster when Whitmarsh shoved that 'get a move on' rocket up Checo's jacksy!!

Thing is, Perez for me has innate natural skill and he does have the armoury as he showed in GP2 - he was able to combine patience with killer instinct. Like you say Knowlesy, this year he has gone from one of those extremes to the other and he needs to bring both to the race weekend!

In those 2 Sauber seasons with that slowly slowly catchy monkey tyres approach, maybe we were fooled into thinking he was a Lauda or Prost in the making, when he was actually a Gilles or JPM wannabe!

[juicy sushi]

I think Perez was quite over-optimistic on that last move, but was quite correct to be trying to pass drivers there. It certainly made a point that other drivers weren't trying hard enough. Looking at what Raikkonen did after that you have to wonder why the hell he didn't show some of that earlier in the race and perhaps move up a couple of places.

I think a lot of the criticism is due to Kimi's popularity. Had Perez done that to Sutil for example, he'd be receiving much less heat. Still, banging wheels with Kimi isn't on par with Hamilton's 2011 Monaco performance. How easily we forget...

[andy666]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Perez was a OTT but it was sure exciting to watch. The reason you have the run off area at the chicane is to promote overtaking and keep cars in the race should they arrive at funny angles!

It was a shame about the Kimi biff, but it was inevitable and please people don't keep saying he was wronged, he knew full well he was coming because he was watching his left side mirror into there every lap and to be frank Kimi was naive to think Perez wouldn't try it on, as he had made the moves there already several times that race.

I'm not condoning contact at all, but we must not savage drivers for trying ballsy overtakes. What I hate to see is damaged cars as a result of overtakes but that's a strong possibility with any move at Monaco unless the driver in front is willing to spare some room. Therefore there has to be some common sense on the aggressor and the defender's parts.

Come to think of it, how many of us used to applaud Montoya's opportunism and Lewis's 'rough em up' driving in the past, both drivers who have endured their fair share of crashes as a result of failed overtakes in the past?

A lot of the anti Perez stuff seems to have a bitterness that lies somewhere else I feel, perhaps because he is seen as having taken Hamilton's seat or apparently being seen as not McLaren 'quality'.

[formerf1champ]

Unless there is absolutely no doubt otherwise, responsibility for contact lies with the driver attempting to pass.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Exactly. It would have it's own 20 page thread on here by now.

Your right but in these matters Hamilton has the history to carry a 20 page thread.

[werner]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

Blame the tyres, not RBR and Mercedes for deciding to cruise all race in order to preserve them in an attempt to do a one stopper.
Vettel had 2 seconds in the bag, as did Rosberg, as did Webber, as did Hamilton, as did almost everybody.

They did the right thing, Vettel's two closer rivals were struggling, no need to push there risking degradation or an accident.

How on earth can you blame the tyres in a race where the fastest lap was set in the last lap by a driver that finished the race with only 1 stop?!

[werner]

Originally Posted by dsg

Your right but in these matters Hamilton has the history to carry a 20 page thread.

Since Hamilton gets hsi own thread when he puts another sticker on his crashhelmet, I think this forum is just a bit more focused on Hamilton in general compared to other drivers....

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by werner

How on earth can you blame the tyres in a race where the fastest lap was set in the last lap by a driver that finished the race with only 1 stop?!

Yes but said driver got a second tyre change during the red flag period.

[werner]

Oh, I forgot about that. It's stupid that they can change tyres during a red flag btw. But we have had that discussion before.

Well, it makes it even more silly that Vettel didn't try to push Rosberg a bit more, even with 'free' fresh rubber.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by werner

Well, it makes it even more silly that Vettel didn't try to push Rosberg a bit more, even with 'free' fresh rubber.

The problem was, the car in front of Vettel was a Mercedes. If it was a Red Bull however... things could've been different.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by werner

Oh, I forgot about that. It's stupid that they can change tyres during a red flag btw. But we have had that discussion before.

Well, it makes it even more silly that Vettel didn't try to push Rosberg a bit more, even with 'free' fresh rubber.

Pushing Rosberg could have resulted in a two stop strategy because of the degradation or a broken FW, or a puncture. And Rosberg was sooooooo slow (deliberatly driving to a delta to make the one stopper work) that a second pit stop would've put Vettel in the middle of the pack because all the cars were close one to another.

Rosberg is not in the title hunt, let him have his win and just focus on the championship. Isn't that the right thing to do in such a complicated track as Monaco, and moreover when your rivals are far behind in the race ?

[Razzzor]

I assume Seb was racing for the title, and as soon as the pit stops were complete that was it, he was finishing 2nd. I'd do the same thing.

Even without these poor tyres, there's still almost no passing at Monaco.

[jedrinck]

Originally Posted by 321Go

The problem was, the car in front of Vettel was a Mercedes. If it was a Red Bull however... things could've been different.

Yeah, there probably would have been a collision with both Red Bulls out.

[werner]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

Pushing Rosberg could have resulted in a two stop strategy because of the degradation or a broken FW, or a puncture. And Rosberg was sooooooo slow (deliberatly driving to a delta to make the one stopper work) that a second pit stop would've put Vettel in the middle of the pack because all the cars were close one to another.

Rosberg is not in the title hunt, let him have his win and just focus on the championship. Isn't that the right thing to do in such a complicated track as Monaco, and moreover when your rivals are far behind in the race ?

I'm with you when we consider the first part of the race. He drove as I would have ie, don't risk having to make more stops than the others.

The point I was making was just about the last part of the race. He let Rosberg run away, when he could easily have followed and put at least a bit of pressure on Rosberg. His rubber was in pristine condition at the end of the race, as showed by his fastest lap on the last lap. So there was no risk at having to make another stop.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by werner

I'm with you when we consider the first part of the race. He drove as I would have ie, don't risk having to make more stops than the others.

The point I was making was just about the last part of the race. He let Rosberg run away, when he could easily have followed and put at least a bit of pressure on Rosberg. His rubber was in pristine condition at the end of the race, as showed by his fastest lap on the last lap. So there was no risk at having to make another stop.

His engineer told him that Rosberg was better on tyres than him, and to leave as much gap as needed, because Hamilton could've attacked Webber and that extra rubber might be needed towards the end of the race.

Look at radio comments on laps : "35" - "40" - "52" on this F1Fanatic article

35 - Sebastian your tyres were marginal on the last stint. Wear limited. Take that into account into the next stint. It’ll be difficult.
40 - Sebastian, Rosberg is not marginal on wear at all. Just maintain position. As big a gap as you need.
52 - Hamilton is pushing pretty hard behind Mark, you might need all of your tyres towards the end.

He had enough tyre to do a fast lap, but how many consecutive laps could've he pushed without destroying them ? I think that's the question.