[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[RWill2073]

It's weird that the article or Jos says max is frustrated. He has seemed to me to be much more at ease, calm and mature this year than ever before.

And when you think about the fact that Mercedes has been a single team for years, developed their package for years, same as ferrari, where Honda just joined with red bull this year, I'd say the progress made based been great. It would be unrealistic to expect them to be competing for titles this year. And they have been getting closer and closer as the year has gone on. Obviously they still have some catching up to do, but up till the last cour races, I would have said they were ahead of ferrari already. And they're doing it with one championship caliber driver, rather than two like the other two big teams have. Maybe albon will get there next year, but he isn't there yet, nor was gasly.

Maybe from anyone else, this would be ok, as a way of using leverage to get things moving, but jos is such a slimy character that I would rather he just stay out of it.

[S griffin]

Max has hardly made a mistake all season and pushed the car to it's maximum, getting some great results out of it. His shot at the title will come

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It makes you wonder how much better they would be doing if Newey was still as involved as he was before

He still is

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for me this sort of touches on some of the larger problems with F1.

while Max is still young he has been in F1 for 5 seasons now and with his obvious talent level it is, imo, a failing of the sport that such a driver has not yet been able to legitimately compete for a title...for many reasons expressed in many different threads here, there are not enough competitive rides out vis a vis the number of talented drivers currently on the grid.

so i can understand a father's frustration and perhaps this is a good tool to take advantage of....i cant help but think about the timing of the comments.

maybe tacitly on behalf of RB, Jos can apply some justifiable public pressure to Honda before the Japanese GP in the hopes that Honda will scale up their investment/contributions.

From 2014 we have only had two cars capable of winning a championship in the field, from 2017 the same 2 cars are capable of winning the championship but only 1 has a driver with sufficient talent to do so.

Bad luck on Max that he has reached F1 at this time

We can only hope that the turn of form Ferrari has displayed since the summer break is genuine, and the initiatives in the machine for 2021 have the desired effect.

Failing this we are just stuck with a moribund formula, and young and existing driver talent should look elsewhere.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

He still is

He has said himself he is much less involved in the design and build of the cars. He has more than a few Red Bull side projects and I don't believe is the designer any longer of the F1 project. Appearances in the garage doesn't mean he's as hands on any longer.

[thunderbolt]

with toro rosso name change (Scuderia Alpha Tauri) and no junior drivers could we see a redbull full podium ?

[Adam43]

Something dragged up from the archive that will lighten the mood.

Beware. You won’t be able to unsee it.

https://twitter.com/hillf1/status/14...960329730?s=21

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Something dragged up from the archive that will lighten the mood.

Beware. You won’t be able to unsee it.

https://twitter.com/hillf1/status/14...960329730?s=21

I remember that. I never knew you liked 20 something hairy blokes. I think that one is taken, though.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Something dragged up from the archive that will lighten the mood.

Beware. You won’t be able to unsee it.

https://twitter.com/hillf1/status/14...960329730?s=21

Worked though - seemed to get him a spicy outcome ultimately.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Worked though - seemed to get him a spicy outcome ultimately.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Greem

I remember that. I never knew you liked 20 something hairy blokes. I think that one is taken, though.

Me and Damon

[VIVA GT]

I see that Autosport are now reporting that the slow pit stop at Monza was caused by the FIA clamp down. So, just to extrapolate this a few days ago Christian Horner was saying that Max & Lewis wouldn't have been anywhere near each other if it hadn't have been for the slow stop, and now they're saying that the slow stop was not their fault Can we expect after the weekend for them to blame the FIA for the Max/Lewis accident?

[S griffin]

Well Red Bull knew about it beforehand

[ScotsBrutesFan]

It was described as human error, the tyre changer didn’t press the done and clear button on the air gun. Previously it was automated.

Yes blame the FIA for removing automation in the name of safety.

[Adam43]

And if there had been no problem maybe he’d have come out of the pits at the same time Mazepin was coming by and there would have been a giant fireball? And a tornado in a weeks time.

This really is a dullard view. I don’t believe Horner can actually be serious with this consequential thought process.

[chillibowl]

Surely the reduction of automation and a change of procedures can lead to mistakes as the new system is implemented.

Further, a lack of testing and practice times (perhaps even due to the sprint race) impacted how they could prepare for the procedure change.

As he says they will learn from it though.

[Adam43]

It lead to a mistake that resulted in a slow pitstop - to link it to the crash at the first chicane is false logic.

[chillibowl]

Indeed its no more the cause of the accident then saying Max or Lewis waking up that morning caused the crash.

For me Horner's comment across to me was more to suggest that if the stop was faster, lewis would have filtered in behind Max avoiding them finding themselves fighting for the same piece of tarmac after the pit exit.

Of course i can also see the other side of this being a team principle is keen to place blame somewhere other then on his star driver.

[Casper]

It is all mind games, nothing to see here except for RB's determination to win this year at any cost and that is Horner's job. Destabilising MB at any cost is their ultimate goal and fair enough. It is curious though that MB don't see any need to do the same thing or enter into a public debate on RB's approach of using the media as a tool but they have always done it to some extent.

[Peter Mallett]

Clearly a butterfly flapped its wings.

https://fs.blog/2017/08/the-butterfly-effect/

[GingerPixel]

Isn't this a bit like claiming that Heineken are to blame for me spilling my pint?

[crmalcolm]

In fairness, when I read Horner's comments I don't see it as trying to blame someone else.

IMO, it comes from a journalist trying to make something out of nothing, and make a story out of the technical directive. He seems to have been asked what happened in the pit stop, and responded:

"We had what looks like a human error. We had an issue at the stop. The wheel was done up and ready to go and unfortunately the car wasn't released. It is a human error. Usually, the guys are phenomenal in the pit lane. It didn't go their way.
Of course, Mercedes then messed up because Lewis should have been well clear and then they had their issue and that's what put the two drivers alongside each other."

Trying to blame someone else - or just explaining what happened?

[GingerPixel]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In fairness, when I read Horner's comments I don't see it as trying to blame someone else.

One of the most bizzare thing about this season IMO. We have some of the most exciting on track action at the front of the field for years and the press are still trying to inject addition drama into the off track stuff!

[E.B]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In fairness, when I read Horner's comments I don't see it as trying to blame someone else.

IMO, it comes from a journalist trying to make something out of nothing, and make a story out of the technical directive. He seems to have been asked what happened in the pit stop, and responded:

"We had what looks like a human error. We had an issue at the stop. The wheel was done up and ready to go and unfortunately the car wasn't released. It is a human error. Usually, the guys are phenomenal in the pit lane. It didn't go their way.
Of course, Mercedes then messed up because Lewis should have been well clear and then they had their issue and that's what put the two drivers alongside each other."

Trying to blame someone else - or just explaining what happened?

Im not one to defend Horner normally, but in this instance i'm with 'crm' on this and believe Horner has just explained what happened. The blame is laid specifically on human error.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by E.B

Im not one to defend Horner normally, but in this instance i'm with 'crm' on this and believe Horner has just explained what happened. The blame is laid specifically on human error.

And if we are going to look at it from an error management perspective, then the change of technical directive can be considered just one of many causal factors - but absolutely not the root cause of the incident.