[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[SSmith]

Also, Ginetta GT4 Supercup is no more. Instead Ginetta will support GT4 owners to enter British GT.

Ginetta's 2023 series are:

- Ginetta Junior Championship
- Ginetta GT Academy
- Ginetta GT Championship - including a 'new' car and the GT5-spec cars


Source: Daily Sportscar https://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/...a-package.html

[redshoes]

Given the costs of running on the TOCA package, the replacement it will probably need to be a series with some manufacturer support or at least a decent title sponsor. Porsche Sprint aside, I'm struggling to think of a suitable candidate.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Also, Ginetta GT4 Supercup is no more. Instead Ginetta will support GT4 owners to enter British GT.[/URL]

I'm not surprised really after this year, strange for them to introduce a new car for one year and then can it though! Be good to see more of them in BGT.

[SSmith]

Following on from my posts and Redshoes's post, do you think we could see a brand new championship get launched to join the TOCA package?

Arguably, the current global economy doesn't necessarily suit a completely new series, and it would be quite a risk for TOCA, but the existing options are incredibly limited.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Given the costs of running on the TOCA package, the replacement it will probably need to be a series with some manufacturer support or at least a decent title sponsor. Porsche Sprint aside, I'm struggling to think of a suitable candidate.

And this is the problem. More Porsches will be boring, the current ones should already be with the BGTs and the addition of more will just mean more one hour processions.

‘Spec Miata’ would work maybe.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

perhaps we'll get some of their current support series - Porsche Sprint is the only one that comes to mind, which barely manages a 10 car grid?

I might be mistaken - but isn't the Porsche Sprint already on the TOCA package at some rounds?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I might be mistaken - but isn't the Porsche Sprint already on the TOCA package at some rounds?

Yes, and BGT on others.

Caterham joined the BARC outfit earlier in the year, wonder if that's an option.

Personally I think a multi-brand series is needed, but not sure there are any outside TCR UK above club level.

[Jo5h]

First post though always enjoy lurking the BTCC threads!

Caterham announced the switch from BRSCC to BARC for 2023, has to be a strong contender to get their main UK series perhaps on the support entry:

https://www.barc.net/caterham-motors...e-2023-season/

https://www.caterhamcars.com/en/late...ham-joins-barc

Massive shame to lose the juniors, would be good to see the JSCC as a support series but I fear they would VERY quickly eat through the supply of any spare Saxos and parts.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I'm not surprised really after this year, strange for them to introduce a new car for one year and then can it though! Be good to see more of them in BGT.

Same here to be honest. At most, Ginetta must have only about 14-16 G56 GT4s racing in the UK, we peaked at 10 in Supercup, and then there is Assetto's British GT entry, and the Ginetta 'factory' car that raced in the GT4 race at the Silverstone Classic. There's probably a couple of others in use in Britcar/GT Cup, and a couple of spare cars. I think there are a couple of G56s out in the USA that have made one or two entries in SROs GT4 America and GT America series last year and this year. Plus I think there are a couple in Japan. Added together that's maybe around 25 cars?

The pairing of Robertson and Sansom did well in British GT in 2021, and Tomlinson and Wheeler will probably improve as they get older (I think both must only be about 15-17yrs old?) So the car has got some form. I think its also won races (in a sub-class) in GT4 America, and in Super Taikyu. Hopefully Assetto, Elite and Breakell will run cars in British GT next year given the other Ginetta stalwart Century has a British GT-partnership with BMW.

I'm wondering if this British GT-only announcement was foreshadowed somewhat by Darren Leung and Charlie Robertson's guest entry in Leung's G56 in British GT at Brands Hatch? Testing endurance racing in the GT4 for '23?

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Yes, and BGT on others.

Caterham joined the BARC outfit earlier in the year, wonder if that's an option.

Personally I think a multi-brand series is needed, but not sure there are any outside TCR UK above club level.

Like RC4/R2/S1600 but not WRC. I like it, sign me up.

[Evantra]

I assume the MINI JCWs are connected to the Coopers? In which case it would make sense for both to be a part of the TOCA package permanently? (same with the Porsches, although I think neither would be a good addition)

Have to have faith that Gow isn't going to let the Ginettas go without something big lined up to replace it.

[Robin Marriott]

The downside of the other minis is that they’re not current cars and are nothing more than a club championship. It’s nice once in a while but as a permanent addition, who really wants to see 20 year old, 115bhp cars?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

The downside of the other minis is that they’re not current cars and are nothing more than a club championship. It’s nice once in a while but as a permanent addition, who really wants to see 20 year old, 115bhp cars?

And they can't manage five minutes without a considerable accident.

If they want a replacement junior series, the Saxos are the next biggest I would've thought? Problem is there that the cars are 20 years old.

[Robin Marriott]

Fiesta Juniors is an option but they use ST150s, which are at best, 14 years old.

There’s plenty of cars which could work for a new junior series, it’s just that none of them have existing support yet.

[crmalcolm]

Perhaps it is time for an obvious BTCC 'feeder' series to be part of the package?

The return of the B-TEC Development Series that struggled to get off the ground in 2017.....

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I assume the MINI JCWs are connected to the Coopers? In which case it would make sense for both to be a part of the TOCA package permanently? (same with the Porsches, although I think neither would be a good addition)

Have to have faith that Gow isn't going to let the Ginettas go without something big lined up to replace it.

Yes they are connected and share a website. I believe the MINI Challenge UK (JCW and Cooper) brand is run by Anthony and Justina Williams (owners of Excelr8).

I do think Mr Gow has something up his sleeve... I would anticipate an announcement this weekend. Possibly on the Friday/Saturday or even live on ITV4 on Sunday in an interview with Steve Rider.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Perhaps it is time for an obvious BTCC 'feeder' series to be part of the package?

The return of the B-TEC Development Series that struggled to get off the ground in 2017.....

Or even a series for lightly-modified versions of the road cars upon which the NGTC cars are based. Similar to the old Class B/Production Class of 2000-2003. Also similar to the old Pirelli World Challenge TC (now TC America) classes on the GT World Challenge America support bill.

[SSmith]

Just read this from Graham Goodwin at Daily Sportscar, with regard to Ginetta

"multiple paddock sources have confirmed to DSC that the move was prompted in no small part by significant increases in entry and other fees suggested by TOCA for 2023 including a very significant hike in the fees for ITV coverage going forward."

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Or even a series for lightly-modified versions of the road cars upon which the NGTC cars are based. Similar to the old Class B/Production Class of 2000-2003. Also similar to the old Pirelli World Challenge TC (now TC America) classes on the GT World Challenge America support bill.

Possibly. I could get on board with that.

My thinking is around a series that (if 2023 was the date):

• Featured NGTC builds over 5 years age.
• Models that are not currently on the grid.
• Non-hybrid PU, providing circa 200bhp.
• Drivers must meet the current Jack Sears criteria.

Possibly even make it the Jack Sears series?

From a rough estimate (ignoring damaged and christmas-tree'd cars) the following would be available:
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Audi A4
Audi S3
BMW 125
Chevrolet Cruze
Honda Civic FK2
Mercedes Benz A-Class
MG6
Proton Persona / Gen-2
Subaru Levorg
Toyota Avensis
Vauxhall Insignia
Volkswagen CC

[AnnoyedMoose]

Only got to read the press releases about the ambitions of the Caterham series when they moved to BARC for 2023 to see where this is going.

[Robin Marriott]

I hope it’s not Caterhams. I’m strongly of the opinion that anything on the TOCA tour should have a roof and doors.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Just read this from Graham Goodwin at Daily Sportscar, with regard to Ginetta

"multiple paddock sources have confirmed to DSC that the move was prompted in no small part by significant increases in entry and other fees suggested by TOCA for 2023 including a very significant hike in the fees for ITV coverage going forward."

Someone has to pay if TOCA are looking for a more permanent move to ITV1

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Possibly. I could get on board with that.

My thinking is around a series that (if 2023 was the date):

• Featured NGTC builds over 5 years age.
• Models that are not currently on the grid.
• Non-hybrid PU, providing circa 200bhp.
• Drivers must meet the current Jack Sears criteria.

Something like that would great, like GT4 is to GT3. But as you said, given the BTEC series will stillborn, and NGTC entrants in TCR UK were short lived, I think it would be unlikely.

Another possibility that might prove popular is the Thundersaloons elsewhere on the BARC package. Possibly too 'clubby' though, and if it's down to an amount of money that Ginetta couldn't stump up, that really limits things.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Something like that would great, like GT4 is to GT3. But as you said, given the BTEC series will stillborn, and NGTC entrants in TCR UK were short lived, I think it would be unlikely.

Another possibility that might prove popular is the Thundersaloons elsewhere on the BARC package. Possibly too 'clubby' though, and if it's down to an amount of money that Ginetta couldn't stump up, that really limits things.

Oh - it's absolutely a pipedream.

I'm sure Mr Gow has a good idea of what awaits us - but personally I don't see an obvious candidate that fits the bill.

The one thing that does cross my mind - if we are really talking about a series that is willing to pay money to be live on the main ITV channel - is something that might seem 'exotic' compared to the current package. Not sure what that would be though......

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

I hope it’s not Caterhams. I’m strongly of the opinion that anything on the TOCA tour should have a roof and doors.

I'd rather have Caterhams, GB3, GB4 and whatever else doesn't have a roof and doors than another dull Porsche series with about 12 cars in the grid, most of which in seperate classes so its less a race, more just turning laps....

Saying that, maybe there's a slot for a classic series.
That BARC Trucks stream has a multi-era classic touring car racing championship, and a lot of touring car series have a classics championship on their package, so pipe dreams aside, could it happen?
(Answer: No, but it'd be nice!)

Come back Clio Cup, it's not been the same since you left!
(Seriously though, do come back Clio Cup if possible )