[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[seanyb505]

I know the system isn't designed to make slow cars fast or fast cars slower to rivals. But. After years of wonky bop that gifted Toyota wins and championships against handicapped privateers, it's harder to keep remembering this system allows cars to reach a potential.

My default, wake up in the middle of the night bop thought is, "Well of course Toyota have a favorable bop, the day of the week ends in Y and Le mans is in June this year."

I think it was smart to set Le mans bop before Sebring, to prevent obvious sandbagging. Though you need to be on point from the outset with the values. Not sure they got it. (And of course Toyota is the benefactor, Le mans in in June this year, AGAIN.)

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I know the system isn't designed to make slow cars fast or fast cars slower to rivals. But. After years of wonky bop that gifted Toyota wins and championships against handicapped privateers, it's harder to keep remembering this system allows cars to reach a potential.

My default, wake up in the middle of the night bop thought is, "Well of course Toyota have a favorable bop, the day of the week ends in Y and Le mans is in June this year.

I think it was smart to set Le mans bop before Sebring, to prevent obvious sandbagging. Though you need to be on point from the outset with the values. Not sure they got it. (And of course Toyota is the benefactor, Le mans in in June this year, AGAIN.)

Lest we forget that the Alpine's wins and Glickenhaus' poles last year had a little something to do with Toyota themselves being handicapped

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by joeb

Random question about GTE bop. I read that the success ballast from these first 3 races gets removed for Le Mans. But does it go back on afterwards? and does Le Mans count towards the ballast in class or is it just a stand alone event?

Sporting regs aren't super clear.

"Success ballast will be imposed for LMGTE Am cars entered
in the Championship. It will be in effect at all
Competitions, except for the 24 Hours of Le Mans."

So there is no ballast at Le Mans but do Le Man's results affect the ballast calculation for Monza?

[broadrun96]

Sounds like it could be in force with the exclusion of LM, I would take that to mean LM is basically skipped for ballast and results now would hold for Monza but the ACO/FIA would use the words as written in French right??

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Bit of a low blow, G4J. From one teacher to another, we should be educating people about the nuances of endurance racing, especially when F1 seems to be heading in the diametrically opposite, "moment"-filled direction.



Then what has tripped them up, three races in a row? Getting used to the car could account for Sebring and Portimao, less so Spa. It's not likely that Toyota will make enough mistakes for Ferrari to keep up.

It's not like AF Corse has a lot of experience of running top class prototypes and Hypercars are clearly a much different animal than P2 Orecas.

But give it time, Toyota wasn't winning in their first season in P1 before the 5th race. Neither BMW nor Audi won at all in their first seasons (in LMP900)! And it took Porsche all season in 2014 to record their first win at the last race.

Ferrari, Cadillac and Porsche will challenge - and possibly beat - Toyota for race wins later on. It's the nature of the game.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

But give it time, Toyota wasn't winning in their first season in P1 before the 5th race. Neither BMW nor Audi won at all in their first seasons (in LMP900)! And it took Porsche all season in 2014 to record their first win at the last race.

Ferrari, Cadillac and Porsche will challenge - and possibly beat - Toyota for race wins later on. It's the nature of the game.

None of that was in a BoP-class, though. And at least in BoP'ed GT-classes, cars have often been competitive right out of the gate - admittedly a bit less so with the current Porsche and Ferraris.

[Simmi]

Here we go. Porsche on the record saying they expect something before Le Mans: https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...efore-le-mans/

But the rules imply the window for changes has been missed.

[Aysedasi]

And Toyota clearly believe there will be no change....

[Sodemo]

I’d say make Toyota race without a rear wing (so to make the car like the Peugeot), that seems to have a detrimental effect on performance. I can only assume Peugeot are still looking for theirs. They need to have a look in the shed, I am always finding car bits in ours, it’s probably in there.

[Mike E]

Clearly a platform adjustment is needed to bring Peugeot, Glickenhaus and Vanwall up to level of Porsche and Cadillac. Very sporting of Porsche to advocate for this change. Bravo!

[Adam43]

[S griffin]

Personally I can understand why they use BoP, especially with the series going through a transition phase the past few years. But I think for LM, it could be maybe dropped. But that's easier said than done

[tomcug]

With the current restriction of platform BOP offset only, there's no good solution to this. Speeding up LMDh cars would be unfair to Peugot and Glick/Kolles machines - if Porsche and Caddy are getting a BOP break, why they don't? Slowing down LMHs would be even worse, as those 3 cars I just mentioned are slow already. Like it or not, another Toyota victory incoming after a snoozefest race in the top category

[Adam43]

So, the problem is that there are two types of car and they aren’t balanced. To solve this we need to slow down one of the types, but also make that same type faster.

LOL.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So, the problem is that there are two types of car and they aren’t balanced. To solve this we need to slow down one of the types, but also make that same type faster.

LOL.

LOOOLLLLL. Sensational.




One thing just popped into mind. I hope Toyota politicked the ish out of the FIA/ACO on Ferrari's entry to return the favour Ferrari paid then when they were coming into F1 (Lobbied their already developed V12 out of existence to make ways for V10s). Certainly doesn't seem like it but, oh well.

[seanyb505]

In a thread debating the brilliance of pants, all tin foil theories are welcomed and encouraged

[Adam43]

Those from the UK and those from the US have very different ideas of how to brilliantly balance their pants.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Those from the UK and those from the US have very different ideas of how to brilliantly balance their pants.

grams vs ounces

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by joeb

grams vs ounces

under or over?

[Aysedasi]

I need a brief description of the options......

[LC2guy]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I need a brief description of the options......

Y ???

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I need a brief description of the options......

I'm more of a boxer man myself

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by joeb

I'm more of a boxer man myself

So you drive a Subaru?

[Adam43]

It’s a fun engine. I had a GT86. Great to see that engine mounted so low.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Cadillac faster than Toyota n°8 ?

I must just come back to this. Something that is bothering me. The median of the Top 50 is surely just the 25/26th best lap! The median of the Top 10 the 5/6th best and the Top 40 excluding Top 10 just the 30/31st best.